U.S. rejects Poland's offer to give it Russian-made fighter jets for Ukraine

Poland is afraid to end up being at war with Russia. They want to make sure it looks like someone else is providing these jets to Ukraine.

 

He does NOT want to rebuild the Soviet Union/want the Soviet Blok back. Anyone who believes this doesn't know very much about the man.

Never mind what he has said, look at what he did in Georgia. When President Saakashvili attacked the Ossetian people, Russian forces responded by going to within approximately 13 miles of Tbilisi. Then they turned around and left. If Putin wants "at least the old Soviet Blok back", then he would have took Georgia when he was there...and he could have. Western propaganda----not very reliable.

 

Then what the hell is he doing in Ukraine?

 

The simple question is: are Donetsk and Lugansk worth hanging onto and fighting for? Crimea is basically lost.

 

Same thing he was doing in Georgia. Catch up.

And he wouldn't be doing it if WE weren't in Ukraine in 2014.

 

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And who are you-- a personal friend?

From a 2014 article
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28229785

[end Snip]

 

There is no justification for this other than his ambitions. He's stepped off in a pile that is deeper and nastier than he predicted and he also overestimated the ability of his own forces. He has the world bumping against a nuclear exchange and for nothing tangible.

 

That’s what I was thinking too. If Ukraine can’t get the fighter jets then I think it’s better to accept the demilitarization of the region. The real territorial loss will be Crimea. Considering the initial objectives Pootin had for Ukraine, and the fact that during the winter war Finland lost a very large share of its former territory (Korelia), Ukraine looks like it stood up pretty damn well and it gets to economically integrate with the West, just like it wanted. The neutrality can be like Israeli neutrality - well armed and capable of defending self, but without the membership of NATO. I think defense investments will flow into Ukraine after this war as many countries would want to partner with Ukraine in their own areas of defense.

 

Where do they control half the country carski?

Most Olgino forces in Ukraine are half starved with little to no fuel for their vehicles....and some surrendering without a fight....)

 

Yes, I think Zelenski will have to take it. Otherwise, Ukraine will risk being bombed to smithereens. Ukraine might still hold out and 'win' in the end, but they won't get back Crimea and they will still have the same skirmishes going on in the Donbass. It'll back to square one with a severely damaged country and enormous bloodshed and grief - all with an even more resentful and dangerous Russia.

 

While Ukraine could be armed to the teeth, isn't Russia also pursuing a more or less disarmed Ukraine in addition to its being barred from NATO? Would Russia ever accept a well-armed, well-defended, pro-West Ukraine? Seems to me they will not walk away peacefully under those terms because they know that it will mean losing their beloved "Novorossiya."

 

Possibly...."Ukraine stood up well"....maybe...but at great cost , ....."economically integrate with the West", how's that possible with Russian military on the ground. I doubt the EU will even remotely considering pouring $$$ into any reconstruction of any kind.....far too much devastation.

The Russians pull back?(if at all), just leaves it to further aggression down the road of its choosing.

 

No, NATO has the world bumping against a nuclear exchange. NATO should have kept their promises and stayed East of Germany. But they didn't. 5 times they expanded East of Germany and now we've got what we've got.

Have you ever read NATO's charter? If you did, then you'd know that NATO isn't doing what NATO was originally founded for.

 

Damn near everything East of the Dnieper.

Good luck with that.

Even your buddy dimon knows it's over.

 

No...I doubt the Kremlin shrimp will allow an "armed to the teeth,well defended Ukraine, not after this debacle....if there's a ceasefire, truce, or cessation of hostilities....even more hardware will flow into Ukraine.....Russian mothers are already squawking about their sons/husband's getting butchered.

 

I always thought NATO expansion was provocative and dangerous but look at Putin's history. He will take a bite out of someone else's apple if he has a need or desire. This misadventure is best to happen now rather than after he really got his army fully trained and equipped. He screwed up here and he knows it, now to find some way to get out without disgrace.

 

Show the quotes dude....nice Confederate flag BTW!

 

The way I understand it, if they do this deal, all Russian troops will be withdrawn. I do not think Russians will have an appetite to try to bite more chunks out of Ukraine again, which is a strategic victory.
If Ukraine can’t get the fighter jets, a lot more people will die as they’ll have to use force to push Russians out. Even if they do, it’s not likely for Ukraine to attempt to reclaim Crimea and demilitarization of the Donbas region would probably still be the result, even if Ukrainians drive out Russians by force, as there are a lot of people in Donbas region who grew up on Russian propaganda.
The deal that Russians propose is pretty much the expected result of this war even if Ukrainians are victorious.

 

Any out for Putler ...at this point, could mean some weakness....and someone might be tempted to "arrange" a quick exit. Just saying.

 

Time will tell....hopefully these sanctions will cause enough grief that the RF starts to break apart.

 

Oh, yeah, I hope the boycott of Russia by private companies continues.

 

All the things in the demands of Russia to cease war in Ukraine which are listed in your link are the very things which caused Russia to go to war with Ukraine in the first place.
(1) Recognition of the Donbass as Russian.
(2) Recognition of Crimea as Russian.
(3) Making Ukraine a non-NATO candidate.

(4) Russia still wants to take out the Nazis in power in Ukraine, though.
The only thing Russia would concede to with these latest proposals of cessation of war provided by your link would be the destruction of the current government of Russia.
IMO, if hostilities stopped due to an agreement on these things listed in the link you provided, the current government of Ukraine would have to be extremely careful going forward if the current government of Ukraine wanted to survive.

 

The suggestion was curious. Not the best way to do that, US have been right to reject the Polish idea.

Regarding what Russians are doing in Ukraine, they have got no more clear ideas.
If Ukranian government is full of Nazis, it's odd that now they are saying that they don't want to topple it.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/ukr...cities-as-russian-onslaught-continues-2811866

So now at Moscow they are ready to leave Zelensky in peace and to negotiate with him.

 

Recognition of DPR as ...."independent".....LOL, sure just like recognizing Bronx,Harlem,South Chicago,inner Detroit as independent??....economically depressed wastelands used as bargaining chips for further aggression.

How's that Abkazia or South Ossetia project coming along?....last I heard that so called governor or something of Abkazia was wanted on Interpol?....

 

Military initiative seems to be lost ....to this point anyway....it's indiscriminate bombing of civilians,hospitals,schools, apartments,etc.