Vatican low on reserves to cover deficit, seeking donations

Vatican low on reserves to cover deficit, seeking donations

The Catholic Church is the largest real estate holder for non-governmental land worldwide with approximately 177,000,000 acres. They also hold quite a bit in assets.

They lobbied for and received $1.4B in taxpayer funds last year with many millions going to dioceses that have paid huge settlements or sought bankruptcy protection because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups (https://apnews.com/article/dab8261c68c93f24c0bfc1876518b3f6).

What do you think?

 

The phrase "cry me a river" comes to mind.

 

The Catholic Church is the most successful scam in human history. Scientology wishes it was this great.

 

Yes, but once you sell those assets, you can never get them back.

Most of those "assets" are not investment assets. You are talking about things like churches.

Yes, they have a lot of assets, but you also have to remember that 16 percent of the entire world's population - over a billion people - are Catholic, so that's not really so much on a per capita basis.

 

You can think what you want about the Catholic Church, but to try to compare the Catholic Church to Scientology is disingenuous. If you want to talk about "scamming", Scientology takes it to a whole different level.

 

I think some of you are projecting your Leftist inclinations onto this news story, prejudicing your view of reality.

"Big organization that has a lot of money. They must not deserve it."

"Religion is a scam"

 

I've covered this discussion in other places, but I really have to ask why money was paid out.

Paying out money is not justice. That money was not actually coming from the individuals who committed the wrong.

But apparently many of those on the Left feel like throwing out huge amounts of money is "justice" and somehow rights the wrong.

 

Scientology is nowhere near as successful a scam as the Catholic Church is. Scientology has managed to trick a few people out of a lot of money over a few decades. The Catholic Church has scammed large numbers of people, kingdoms, nations etc out of money and influence over centuries, even to the point of being given a city state. It is indeed hardly comparable. Catholic Church a much higher level.

 

Religion itself isn't necessarily a scam. Organized religion that demands money (tithing), tax free status, and that has influence enough to cover up pedophiles... That is most definitely a scam.

 

My bold. Thus denying compensation to the victims of their abuse. The RCC is a disgrace.

 

I've been to the Vatican, and let me tell you, they're sitting on a treasure horde that makes Scrooge McDuck's money vault look like a piggy bank.

 

The tax free status is given with the idea that non-profits (including churches) provide a community benefit.
It's the type of thing that maybe tax money should be given to (if there wasn't a separation between church and state, and if there wasn't the sticky issue of which religions get exactly how much money).
It doesn't make sense to double tax money when one person gives money to an organization to then use for a religious use, which is what would happen if you taxed churches. The individuals who are paid by churches still have to pay taxes.

Now as for property taxes, that is a different argument and a stronger one which I am not going to completely cover here. But in some ways a church serves the function of a community space (like a park), if many people in the community go there. So there is some argument that the property taxes should be less, or even just reduced. It is a venue where people (especially poorer people without money) can go without paying money.

You've brought up multiple issues, and obviously I can't go over each one with you in this thread discussion.

 

Most of those treasures are from the Renaissance period when the Catholic Church was much more rich and powerful than they are now. The Vatican is almost more like a museum, in some ways.
I don't think all those "treasures" are representative of how wealthy the Catholic Church is now.

 

Those victims don't deserve financial compensation.

That's more of your wacky Leftist inclinations, that somehow throwing out a huge amount of money will right an institutional wrong.

In my personal opinion, any of those victims who accepted a million dollar payout DESERVE the abuse they got.

(Yes, it is wrong what happened to them, but it is even more wrong for them to accept that huge amount of money)

 

Catholic Church national wealth estimated to be $30 billion, investigation finds

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-12/catholic-church-worth-$30-billion-investigation-finds/9422246

 

What are you talking about? The Church did not stop those victims from going to the police, and the Church did nothing to stop the police from investigating. The Church has no influence over police. The Church only had influence over their own clergy.

Can you show me even a single example of the Church using its influence on a parent of a victim to not report the abuse to police?

 

You realize that's only $23 per Catholic person in the world?

 

Oh, just for comparison, the wealth of the Church of Scientology is $70,000 per person who is a member of Scientology.

 

Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection

 

They have assets and they are begging for money. Pathetic.

 

You don't have to get dirt poor and have nothing before you urgently request donations.

You seem to think any big organization with money should spend, spend, spend until they no longer have money.

You do realize that the Catholic Church is mostly funded through donations?
Same thing with a lot of other non-profits.


There's also a huge difference between assets and investment assets, which you don't seem to understand. You'd want the Catholic Church to sell off all their church buildings before they begged for money? Sell off all those cultural treasures they are preserving in the Vatican which is almost more like a museum?

 

I didn't say that. I wrote they are pathetic.

 

Yeah, they asked to be raped....what world do you live in?

 

That wasn't my point. Why should they get money?
You realize that money is just ultimately coming from donors?

Not only that, but you seem to want to put a price tag on sexual abuse. That's basically treating the victim like a prostitute.


I've seen this same abuse coming from politicians. They ultimately want to pay off their victims with taxpayer money to keep them quiet, rather take the personal fall themselves.
It's wrong. And the victim is wrong to accept this money.

 

So, they not only get violated, they don't deserve any compensation? That's just sick.

Of course the money comes from donors - people who are guilty of turning a blind eye to the decades of abuse against children which makes them complicit.