Virginia Ultrasound Bill Passes In House

So why is it necessary for the state to mandate it if it's already being done? So they can be sure there's a pro-lifer standing there telling the woman she's a murderer if she aborts the pregnancy?

I don't understand how this is supposed to work. I've had a couple of ultrasounds and it was always just me and the technician in the room. The monitor was behind me so I couldn't see what was on the screen. What will be different with the mandated ultrasounds? Will there be other people in the room to try to make you look at the screen? What will they be saying to you while the test is going on?

And if PP and other clinics are already doing this, will they require that women have a SECOND ultrasound in a state-sponsored setting where they CAN "counsel" you while it's going on? Otherwise, what's the point?

 

So is mine. What has the higher morality saving thousands of lives, hundreds of lives or easing one, two or three in despair?

Since you continue to try and misstate the opinion of others I guess so.

Then why do you continue to try and stand in the way of things that might encourage a woman to change her mind?

No I am the one that sees the ones being killed as human while you want to do everything in your power to see that they are killed. Yet you claim WE are the ones who have no humanity, how absurd.

Try again and try to speak for yourself and express YOUR opinion and belief instead of trying to assign one to me.

Why? Every time someone on my side mentions the fact that it is a human life you fight to the hilt denying it, claiming WE are the one so uninformed.

So if it is just a clump of cells, if it is not human, if it is not a life, AS YOU CLAIM what is so emotional about it, what is the trauma?

YOU are the one who has been telling us it is nothing to be concerned with, it is just a blob, now it is something emotional and traumatic.

Those have been YOUR points used to attack. So it isn't JUST a clump of cells, it ISN'T just a blob. It IS a life that is killed and THAT is why it is traumatic and emotional?

What utter nonsense, YOU and YOUR SIDE are the ones desperate to trivialize it in order to justify it. Me and MY SIDE are the ones stating how it is NOT a trivial matter

So again what is so traumatic and emotional about it if we are to believe what you have been stating?

 

Still skating your statement

WHY? Why don't you believe in abortion? Not that you didn't have one because you were heathy and blah blah blah.

You made a statement of your principle, that you are against abortion, what do you have against abortion?

 

To insure it against any clinics that might try to endanger the woman by not doing so and making sure she is fully informed.

Hyperbole.

When my grandchildren were conceived and their mothers had ultrasounds we got pictures and videos to watch.

No. Why are you so scared a woman might change her mind and not have the abortion?

 

Why is it so easy for the pro-life side to clearly and concisely state their positions, back them up with scientific data and teaching. But the pro-abortion side cannot clearly state their position and when the make such statements as "I personally don't support abortion" they run and and dodge and dance trying to avoid answering the simple question, why not?

 

Pro-abortion is having abortion safe and legal for those who decide to have one. It is not ENCOURAGING people to have one or "Liberals teaching their children to kill their babies" or "obsessing over killing babies" as paranoid pro-lifers believe - it is simply believing that when one is necessary, it should be legally available in a safe environment.

There's no point in discussing this any further as you aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. I'm a woman and I believe in women's rights and that women are intelligent enough to know what's best for them. We don't need to be constrained by law to do what's best for both ourselves and our children.

 

Your refusal to address the question posed to you about YOUR stated position is noted and shows how you can't support the position you took. You are correct there is no point in discussing it when you want it to be just a one sided conversation where you declare my position, refuse to acknowledge what I have stated is my position, then make statements about yours and then refuse to discuss them when called on them.

You said it was a traumatic and emotional experience trying to show the pro-life side as uncaring thinking it would give you the higher ground, yet refuse to say what it is about abortion that is traumatic and emotional, especially when you have stated things just the opposite.

You said

Again trying to take a higher moral ground yet can't say why, what is it about abortion that makes you not believe in it?

White flag noted.

 

......

1) The anti-abortion people are attempting to reverse Roe v Wade entirely obliterating family planning and abortion, although family planning would avert the need for abortions, but don't tell them that because they are obsessed in getting rid of Roe v Wade, which would make all mental, physical help for an overworked, poor, exhausted woman obsolete.

2) That won't be discussed because many anti-abortion people carry religiously- induced guilt and become mentally obsessed with "savng others" when it actually is guilt they have allowed to be put on themselves. Same with men...they all make it a life's work, like freakin' Joan of Arcs opposing laws that have been passed, feeling justified in denying a woman her rights, privacy, and willing to try to out-talk anyone that practices family planning in any way, shape, or form.

3) Correct, and we don't need to be constrained by any abortion obsessed nut- cases that try to bully their personal beliefs on anyone else. It remains a private decision and right between a woman and her doctor to access any personal woman's options at any given point in her life.

As women, we must all remember for every abortion needed, there is a man with sperm lurking in the background unmindful of his selfish, irresponsible actions. We need another law that stipulates 'the partner of every abortion seeking female gets a vasectomy'...snip snip...

 

......

No woman needs to listen to your crap any longer. You have no right to impose your own beliefs over another in a public form. You try the bully line again with no interest in being polite, or interested in anyone elses ideas, then this is no longer a debate but a bully pulpit for self-obsessed anti-abortionist violent, rude rhetoric.

So be polite, or move along to another thread ...or better still offer a thread of your own. This thread is about the mandatory ultra-sound bill just passed in Virginia. Can you focus?

 

Your inability to defended your stated position is duly noted.

Your inability to defend you own stated positions while attacking the positions of others is duly noted.

You are the only one being impolite and and even uncivil now. You have been asked direct question concerning YOUR stated positions and now want to run away..........oh well that is quite telling.


YOU said you were against abortion............why? Seems like it is OK for YOU to be against abortion but no one else.
YOU said getting an abortion is traumatic and emotional yet you can't explain why it is so after trivializing what takes place during one. Why?

And now you get upset that someone would dare to question the positions you take. Why?

If you are going to participate in a public debating forum you can expect your positions to be challenged, this is not a soap box, it that overwhelms you then don't participate and don't try to chastise those who do challenge you.

 

Do you also agree that all drugs should be legalized…and that we should provide our children with needles and everything they need to do it in a safe environment. They will do drugs….so we might as well help them do it safe.

Do you agree?

Also we know they are going to have sex. So instead of the backseat of a car…lets provide hotels were they can go. Also the age that kids can have sex and be legal should go down. Maybe ten…? There should be no such thing as statutory rape….our kids today are street smart and well if they can get abortions behind our backs….they should be able to do just about everything else. Include prostitution in that as well…….


You know when you defend abortion you always bring up the rare cases. Less than 1% of abortions are done because of rape…or maternal health. Most abortions are done for other reasons….money, age….school, does not know the father…does not want to get fat…..etc.

It is sad you want it legal for that 1% while the other 99% die needlessly.

 

So you're saying it is acceptable to intrude upon another's liberty as long as the other side is doing it? I don't accept that argument. You cannot have it both ways.

When it comes to abortions as a means of birth control, I don't think that this is a half bad idea. Unfortunately, mandates such as this are government interference in one's health care. One of the few things I agree with conservatives on is that the government has no business in that area.

Most of those laws that prohibit behavior are government intrusion in our lives for behaviors that do not affect others. I'm not allowed to buy booze on Sunday. I'm not allowed to do drugs. Why do nanny state conservatives want to dictate what I can do to myself?

Legitimate uses of the abortion procedure were not allowed by all states. RvW basically made it such that the government cannot interfere in the decisions made by the doctor and patient. In this case, the court held that the government cannot tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body.

 

It does so all the time with the laws and regulations that govern medical care, only abortion claims such a status.

So women can sell an eye or a kidney or a hand?

 

Uhm, No....we're saying we hate it, but lefty loves it until it's something they don't want...it's the hypocrisy man.

 

But it's quite all right for the left to try and impose their beliefs on us...Oh the hypocrisy once again!!!

 

Go back and read. It was one of your lefty buddies who brought up that this is all about changing women's minds. Making them submit to an ultrasound, making them look at the ultrasound, making them listen to a speech about what they may not know and all that crap.

 

Amazing how frightened they are a woman just might change her mind.

 

I know, I thought the left was all up on furthering education...who knew?

 

I was against it for myself because I wanted my children and there was no reason not to have them.

I made my decision to have my children all by myself and with no government or pro-lifer interference. I don't judge others for the decisions they make. Like me, they know themselves, their families, their financial situation, their life circumstances and are completely capable of making a decision according to their OWN BELIEFS.

 

Lefties aren't trying to force women to endure an ulrasound, or carry an unwanted baby.

 

Do you really believe that if someone is pro choice, they should have an abortion?
That's retarded.

I'm against abortion for myself because I WANT kids. I would choose abortion only if I would die, or if the fetus were disabled. Besides that, even if I couldn't afford a baby, I would have it.

 

Who's imposing anything on you? Is anybody telling you you MUST have an abortion whether you want one or not? Or are you allowed by law to make that decision for yourself?

Abortion is legal. As long as it is, ALL WOMEN are free to make whatever decision they please. Each woman can choose to have an abortion or NOT to have an abortion according to her beliefs and circumstances. Nobody is imposing anything on anybody else. If abortion is made illegal, the pro-lifers will be imposing their beliefs on the rest of us.

If state legislatures can do this and get away with it, what else can they do? Can they pass a law that says women are only allowed to have 1 child and all other pregnancies MUST be aborted? Of course they can. Can they pass a law that says women can no longer have bank accounts in their own names or own property? Of course they can. Will you still be supporting them then?

 

I think that was me. Why do YOU think they're doing this - other than to pander for Conservative/RW votes? Ultrasounds are already required by PP and other clinics. So why do they need to be mandated? Can you think of any rational, logical reason why they would do that - mandate something that's already routine procedure?

What do you think women don't know at that point? They've undergone counseling that doesn't accuse them of committing murder and tell them they're going straight to Hell if they have the abortion. Why are you so anxious that they should have to listen to that crap? To punish them and make a hard decision that much harder for them?

 

Gawd your comprehension is quite worrisome.

I keep telling you when government is involved you don't get to pick and choose what you will do and not do. Are you still for Ubamacare? There is your problem. Government should not be involved in healthcare, but lefty is all for it until it goes against something they want. Oh man then the crap hits the fan. Where the (*)(*)(*)(*) were you when Ubama was cramming Ubamacare down our throats. Yeah I know, you were one to champion it. Greatest thing that ever happened. This is what you get. Want to do something about it??? Stand up for a smaller government. Stand up against the Ubamacare mandate.


So tell us why you are against abortion?

 

She never bloomin' said she was against abortion!!!!!! Crikey, how many times does she have to say that!!! There is a difference between being pro choice yet pro life for yourself!