Virginia Ultrasound Bill Passes In House

You call my beliefs evil - how can I believe in evil and not BE evil?

And you call ME judgmental? "Determined to kill" because I would put the lives of my living children before a fetus? Let my daughter who already had 2 small children die so there would be 3 orphans instead of 2 with a mother to raise them? I think the "right to life" applies just as much to the born as to the unborn and if that's evil - color me evil.

I have not judged you at all. I believe women have the intelligence and common sense to make their own decisions and deal with the results of those decisions. I have said I think you were lucky that you had the opportunity to terminate your pregnancy safely and legally - an opportunity that thousands of women before you did NOT have and is the reason Roe v. Wade came about in the first place.

The difference between us is that your first priority is the unborn and mine is with the born and living. I believe that people who are already living have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and the right to make decisions that will have a significant impact on their life, liberty and happiness. Having an abortion has obviously impacted your entire life. NOT having one can equally impact another person's life just as adversely. You can't force your beliefs on someone else. If the pro-lifers are successful in overturning Roe v. Wade and making abortion illegal again, it won't stop abortion - it will simply force women back to unsafe means of getting one and putting their lives and health at risk.

You call me "pro-aborts" as if to insinuate I encourage abortion which is not true. Like millions of others, I'm content to let you run your life, I'll run mine and other women can run theirs. The only way that can happen is for abortion to remain safe and legal and then we can ALL decide what's right for us.

 

You can still love someone and terribly disagree and dispose what they believe. Its called hating the sin…and loving he sinner.

This has nothing to do with your living children…but those in the womb that you target by your position. I would think you would have entailed in your girls that having a child would be the right thing to do if they got pregnant…that you would be support in case they decided to go that way. You are coloring this because you really have no where else to go. I believe you know its wrong and you know your position is not the moral one.

Sure you have…Intelligent people fall prey to many things…I did it and others do it all the time. We are human..and humans make terrible decisions. Abortion is a terrible decision that women make…they do not know the effects it can have both physically and mentally. It is a quick fix to a jam THEY have gotten THEMSELVES in. It is not taking the moral high ground. I was not lucky…and if you knew the result and effects of my abortion you would not be saying this. I would give anything to go back and change my decision. You think the choice is something great…..and abortion and living with the knowledge that YOU KILLED A LIVING HUMAN BEING…is far from wonderful. Only a pro-abort would think like you do..and that is what the pro-life movement is working against daily…positions and people that hold them.

You are a pro-abort you want abortion legal…YOU THINK EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IS GREAT…THAT WOMEN HAVE THE CHOICE TO KILL….well its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Our first priority in our country should be like the Constitution says…"LIFE"…it does not matter whether its in the womb or not. Without life we can't have liberty and any pursuit to do anything. You think if a women is forced to give birth to the baby…THAT SHE WILLINGLY CONCEIVED BECAUSE IT TOOK PLACE IN HER BODY, that her life is somehow over. She has option…keep the child or place that child up for adoption. But you probably also think that…abortion is better than being pregnant for nine months especially if you give it up…it would be better off dead because if you can't have it no one else is going to get it either. But there are options that keep EVERYONE ALIVE. You don't get that…killing is your only option and you embrace it.

If abortion is illegal…it will save lives…the majority of them. If a woman wants to use her choice by harming herself then so be it. But you can't have something legal just to stop a very small group of women that would do this. I would just bet more women would think before hopping in the sack. I also believe the rate of STD's would decrease. Women would think of the consequences. I was afraid when I got pregnant…but never was that desperate that if Roe had not been in place I would have done harm to myself. I was a feminist at that time and if I had wanted a baby I would have had a baby and told everyone to bug off. You make abortion illegal….you save millions of lives.

You seem to encourage abortion…you champion women's rights in this area. You are not pro-life you are pro-abortion.

 

The whole point is that if you have surgery done the doctor tells or informs you what is going to happen. And if they don't then they are not a good doctor. Doctors should tell you the risks…and about the procedure. What is wrong with that? Abortion is one of the most common surgeries in the country. It is a surgery thats different than any on earth because it kills a human being.

When I had my abortion in the late seventies…PP said nothing to me…no counseling whatsoever. I am not saying at that time my decision would have been different…but I should have known about the baby that was being killed. I had no idea that the heart starts beating at 20 days after conception. Women need the truth…and PP is against showing women the real face of abortion.

 

After all I've said and given you my reasons, you still accuse me of "encouraging abortion" when nothing could be further from the truth. My 4 children and 10 grandchildren are testament to the fact that I have not encouraged abortion in my own family or turned to it myself. Three of my daughters work with at-risk children and their families. We are as pro-family and pro-children as anybody could be. Our first priority is with the children we love and want and are guiding to the best future possible for them.

I champion women's rights in ALL areas because I KNOW that women are intelligent and just as able to make the best decisions for their futures as any man can make FOR them. I'm sorry your experience has had such a devastating effect on your life and caused you to spend your life trying to take away a woman's right to self-determination. Mine is spent enjoying my large, loving family and making sure that all of them - male and female alike -can face the future knowing that whatever problems arise for them, they will have the right to solve those problems for themselves with no governmental interference - just their own intelligence, the advice of their doctor if one is needed, and the support of their family for whatever they decide.

I appreciate the discussion we've had because it's given me some real insights into something I've never understood. I won't wish you luck in your endeavors because success will have such devastating effects on women for many years to come - but I do hope you can achieve some degree of happiness and enjoy the family you do have. Since we're at the point of going in circles and not accomplishing anything, it's time to stop.

 

Nothing is wrong with that because it allows one to make informed decisions. On the other hand, there have been some SC decisions that limit the government with regards to compelled speech. A number of these laws possibly cross the line and are unconstitutional. I'm no constitutional scholar but I don't see how mandating that something be placed in someone's hooha is constitutional.

 

churchmouse:

u sed:
"I was not lucky…and had someone given me information about fetal development had I not been like you are today a feminist who thought I was the only one that mattered…had abortion been legal...I would have another child today. But ya know what….I am not going to blame anyone but myself and the life I was leading which was immoral and ungodly. I was certainly not living out my Christian ideals…or the ones I thought I had. And sin splashes as I found out…my sin caused me suffering and pain throughout most my life….until 9-11…when I gave my life to Christ. Women have to know that God forgives…that they do not have to live like that…that there is hope.
......

You know, God made us imperfect human beings, and imperfect we will always be.

But we must not grovel in the past, having blame put on us by others, being brainwashed into thinking that "your sin" caused you suffering and pain most of your life is merely what you put on yourself, allowing others to place that pain and suffering on you.

As humans, we are living each day and planning how to do better the following day thru God's grace. If you truly had that, you wouldn't waste your time trying to put guilt onto other women...the same guilt that was thrust onto you. If you were truly with God and His everlasting forgiveness, you would be out in the world giving the true victims, who are living with the same sense of guilt that you are because of circumstances in their lives, a sense of true compassion, understanding and knowledge of family planning for her protection and toward a better life.

God never said 'don't have an abortion'...'don't take birth control pills'...'don't take full control of your life and body'...

God said: "Love One Another."

 

AnnaK..said,

You are pro-abortion because you oppose protection for the unborn child. And if one of your grandchildren asked you your opinion…you would have to be honest and tell them just that. YOU OPPOSE PROTECTION FOR THE LIFE IN THE WOMB. Does not matter if you encouraged your daughters or not…you want abortion legal. That says it all. And the best future for them could involve abortion, right? You like Obama want abortion legal in case your family needs it.

And one of those rights is to kill.

My life is so blessed so don't think I sit around and cry, complain and wallow in self pity anymore. I am so busy there are not enough hours in the day to get things done. God forgave me as I did myself….and I will one day see my little one. Yes abortion gets me….because I have been there and I have seen and heard things I am sure you have not seen through my work. It breaks my heart to know that at this very second I write this..that babies are being killed. It obviously has no effect on you…and ya know that is sad. That one day you might have to explain to one of your grandchildren.

We will always have government interference in our lives. But no government should allow its citizens to kill other human beings.

I pray for people like you every day…that God changes your heart…that God works a miracle in your life…that you would one day love the life in the womb..not just the ones you had but the ones to come the ones who are being slaughtered as we speak. You simply don't care…you are content to look away…I can't and won't. You see this as only a woman's issue…and it is an issue that affects us all. This is a human issue..that is what you don't get.

I hope your grandchildren are not like you in that…they get educated about the unborn, fetal development and value life. Oh what would your excuse be….when they ask you why you don't value all life….not just theirs.

Every abortion debate goes in circles…because its not only about killing it is about morals and world views. I believe a persons entire worldview is affected by how they interpret and respect life. This one view affects everything in their life.

You might run…from a discussion because you are at the end….but I refuse to…to do so would give in to people who hold your position on this…and you won't win there.

 

Agent said,

......

God made us…human beings…we are the ones who screw things up by sinning.

I bring up my past because it is part of my witness…my testimony. I promised God that I would stand up for the unborn and I am doing that through work. I do not hide my past…I am not ashamed…I am forgiven…thank you Jesus. I live with much joy in my life…and everything good that happens comes from the Father…He gets the credit. But my sin caused much suffering. I was lost and because of that my family suffered. Sin can involve more than one person. How about he sin of a man who has an affair and gets AIDS…then infects his wife? His sin…transferred and affected others. That is why we should carefully pick who we associate with and what we do. I talk about my abortion especially to young women because I want them to know from someone who has gone through one that it might not be as convenient and easy as they think. That they might suffer down the line..as I believe most women do. But we will never know how many because…women don't admit they have had one. Funny I am the only one here statistically who has had one. Many are to embarrassed to admit it.

I have no clue what your religion but I doubt it is Christianity…because God commanded us to spread love and to stand up for the truth. And based on the OT and NT we should stand up for the unborn. God is clear that sex outside marriage is sin. He talks about knowing us before we were born…in the womb. I am trying to help women from making the mistake I did. I try through my work to educate women about fetal development. Many are like the people here debating this….they don't even know when life begins that the heart starts beating around 20 days….all this might not matter to you…but it matters to God. And when I die…and stand before him I want him to be able to say good job well done. What will those who looked away say?

Why don't you look up this group….Silent No More…I work with this group. So don't think I do not minister to the post abortion woman.

He never said don't rape anyone either. He never said don't have sex with children…but do you think He would condone either one of those? You guys kill me…pun intended. The entire bible is a testimony to Gods love for the unborn. And to say what you said in this post shows you do not know scripture. God did however say……do not sin. And one of those is do not murder…what is abortion?

Funny how some people justify the sin in their lives by saying this….what you are saying now.

God said: "Love One Another."

God is more than just love. Jesus talked about hell more than he did about Heaven. God will pour out His wrath on those who do not believe that is why God commanded us to spread the Gospel in the Great Commission. Jesus came because man was lost and sinful, He can not tolerate sin. If we weren't sinful He did not need to come. Your right we should love….but never watering down the Gospel and the Word.

 

Since when is rubbing jelly on your belly and moving something around on top of it invasive?

They are sticking the business end of a crushing suction pump up your hush and sucking out a human being... but an ultrasound demonstrating that is "sick"?

Please.

I am pro choice, I live in VA, but in my opinion this is not "invasive". Invasive procedure implies invading the body, not the conscience. That you don't want to be reminded of what you are actually doing is a whine, not a legal stance imo.

 

Please do not fabricate quotes and attribute to me.

 

Once again.

Still skating your statement

WHY? Why don't you believe in abortion? Not that you didn't have one because you were heathy and blah blah blah.

You made a statement of your principle, that you are against abortion, what do you have against abortion?


And....what is so emotional about it, what is the trauma?


Try again and try to speak for yourself and express YOUR opinion and belief instead of trying to assign one to me.

Why? Every time someone on my side mentions the fact that it is a human life you fight to the hilt denying it, claiming WE are the one so uninformed.

So if it is just a clump of cells, if it is not human, if it is not a life, AS YOU CLAIM what is so emotional about it, what is the trauma?

YOU are the one who has been telling us it is nothing to be concerned with, it is just a blob, now it is something emotional and traumatic.

Those have been YOUR points used to attack. So it isn't JUST a clump of cells, it ISN'T just a blob. It IS a life that is killed and THAT is why it is traumatic and emotional?
Quote:
trivializing what they're going through.
What utter nonsense, YOU and YOUR SIDE are the ones desperate to trivialize it in order to justify it. Me and MY SIDE are the ones stating how it is NOT a trivial matter

So again what is so traumatic and emotional about it if we are to believe what you have been stating?

 

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