'Walking while trans' ban repealed in New York after Gov. Andrew Cuomo signs bill into law

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by wgabrie, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Ok, so there you have it. It's a police reform example. As well as a win for the minority trans community.

    So, what do you think?

    As for me? I don't know how such an old law got passed in the first place, and I don't know how it stood for so long. I don't usually care about other people's business as long as they leave me alone. So, I'm glad a new law was passed to repeal the old statute.
     
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    Me? I'm a 'live and let live' guy. .
     
  3. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    So....the law was repealed because transgender tend to be prostitutes? I'm not seeing the logic.
     
  4. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Assuming that trans people walking down the street are prostitutes and being stopped for being trans is what we call state sponsored violence by reminding trans people that the state will view their existence as criminal.
     
  5. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    The law specifies LOITERING. Loitering and walking down the street are not the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  6. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    That’s a meaningless distinction. You realize that right? That’s not touching the core of the problem.
     
  7. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Loitering and walking are meaningless distinctions?

    Are you saying they mean the same thing? Because I guarantee you they dont.
     
  8. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Meaningless distinction isn't the same thing as denying the two are different. It's saying why does that difference matter? An apple is an apple unless you need to know the difference between the two. And a terrible counter argument and you grasping for straws is no different either.
     
  9. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Loitering is hanging around street corners or intersections and not leaving. Walking is going to a destination. The transvestite prostutes were loitering to pick up John's. They weren't walking home.

    I'm sorry if trans people tend to be prostitutes. But not the cops problem. Its their problem. And they don't have special privilaged rights over the rest of society.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  10. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    What does that do with what I said? Saying the meaningless distinction doesn't make it meaningful.
     
  11. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    But that's not the problem here. What the law states and what the government allows under the law can be two different things. The problem is that the law was enacted to cover a specific act, Loitering for the Purposes of Prostitution, but was expanded (unofficially or otherwise) to allow police to stop and frisk trans women and led to the arrest many people who were not engaged in prostitution.

    Basically a CIS Woman loitering would be ignored unless she was actively engaged in prostitution. A Trans Woman on the other hand could stop to fix her shoe and attract the attention of the police.

    And yes, according to the article..."The statute allowed police to "stop-and-frisk trans women of color and other marginalized groups for simply walking down the street," Hoylman said in a news release."
     
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  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to think it's always a simple black-and-white thing to tell if someone is breaking the law. It's not.
    There is no easy way to tell if someone is "loitering for the purposes of prostitution". If police had to have absolute proof, they'd rarely be able to arrest anyone and so the law would go unenforced. Instead those given responsibility to enforce the law took certain liberties, in deciding what sort of things constituted adequate evidence that someone was breaking this law.
    Since prostitutes often wear flamboyant outlandish risque clothing to advertise themselves, the police used that as one primary factor. Of course, this just happens to be something many trans women do too.

    Of course, it wasn't just that. Once police viewed a trans woman with suspicion, they would then scrutinize them for other pieces of evidence. And oftentimes this evidence was just coincidence or turned out to be really flimsy.
    But it seemed reasonable to those police officers to arrest these trans women for breaking the law.

    For example, maybe the trans woman just happened to be stopping at a street corner too long. Making it more suspicious that she was a prostitute. Maybe she waved to someone she knew in a car that went by.

    Then the police stop and search her.
    These trans women have been arrested just because they had too much money in their purse, or happened to be carrying a couple of condoms with them.

    The thing is, from the perspective of many police officers, a biological man wearing that type of clothing, carrying a large amount of money and several condoms, all while walking down the street, not in a car, is very unusual and practically evidence that they are in the prostitution business.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021

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