Were the old racist Confederate white men right about black people?

I posted this in another thread and all of a sudden nobody wanted to talk anymore. I figured I'd make it's very own thread and see if anybody wanted to discuss.

Those mean old racist white guys felt as though free blacks would be a harmful, detrimental force to unleash upon society. They claimed it would lead to increased violence and a decrease in safety.

Blacks represent ~14% of the total population in this country.
Blacks represent 49.7% of the total murder and non-negligent manslaughter in this country.
Blacks represent 32.9% of the total forcible rape in this country.
Blacks represent 55.6% of the total robberies in this country.
Blacks represent 33.6% of the total aggravated assault in this country.
Blacks represent 31.7% of the total burglaries in this country.
Blacks represent 38.3% of the total violent arson in this country.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

What the hell were those crazy old racist white guys thinking when they believed free black men with guns was a bad idea?

Or were they right?

ETA: and before people come in saying "they're just poor!!!" Please explain to me what being poor has to do with representing 32.9% of the total forcible rape in this country.

 

What? Nobody wants to discuss?

 

i am not educated enough to counter your claims but i wanted to say that im going to go ahead and subscribe.

 

No I don't think those old racist Democrats were right about black people. They were also wrong in using redistribution and socialist victimology politics to manipulate and solidify a black voting bloc. If you look at graphed crime rates, four correlations become evident, 1. crime literally exploded from the inception of the Democrat "War on Poverty," this explosion exacerbated as the programs were continued by both parties 2. crime literally exploded from the inception of mass media proliferation of leftist victim/identity politics 3. crime literally exploded from the inception of the Republican, then bipartisan "War on Drugs." 4. Crime literally exploded upon the formation of the bureaucratic police state, with way too many armed federal and state police forces looking for "clients" to the point of entrapment and flouting the spirit of the laws in favor of the letter for bureaucratic gain. I believe these correlations create a compelling narrative of -exactly- what is wrong with the black experience in this country, and it has little to do with the actions of blacks.

People who are manipulated into dependency become alienated and dehumanized. People who are told that "victimhood" is the essence of their being, and that all they are is pawns of some "oppressor" group become alienated and dehumanized. People who are arbitrarily harrassed and imprisoned for crimes mostly in the personal sphere become alienated and dehumanized. Dehumanized people are capable of anything.

IIRC, before the massive growth of the Executive Branch and the War on Drugs, media proliferation of victim politics, large, numerous institutionalized bureaucratic police forces, and illicit transfer programs, blacks were assimilating amazingly well into US culture given their history here.

In essence, treat the citizenry like dependent animals and that is exactly what they will become in time. This applies to whites and anyone else also, but the historical concentration of blacks in urban areas, easy to reach for the police state, exacerbates these factors' impact on blacks.

As usual, social problems are caused by illicit government growth and meddling towards graft and power grab. Graft programs are sold to the public as "solutions to grave problems" or "for the good of us all," when the true beneficiaries are always government and its true constituency. The solution is simple, "kill the brain, kill the ghoul."

 

Black people were not more likely to commit crime until their cities turned democrat. Democrat cities have higher crime rates among all races, but black communities in particular were targeted by the war on poverty and many were poor at the time just getting their civil rights a few years prior. Welfare causes ideleness causes crime. So does a high minimum wage because of its effect on low skill youth.

They didnt change race after the war on poverty.
Nigerian Americans make more then white Americans and are less likely to commit crime.
They are black.

It isn't a race thing. It is the leftist culture of irresponsibility manifesting itself among races most likely to vote for these leftist democrats.

 

Are the new racist liberals right about black people. Havent they actually taken over the position of the white Confederate?

 

I think the premise that blacks should have been kept slaves is morally repugnant to the point of nausea.

Clearly there seems to be some sort of disconnect in humanity when folks banter so casually between treating folks like human beings and owning them to beat, rape, and force to work.

 

I understand your point but I question your conclusion. And I will give you three main reasons why.

#1: as pointed out earlier... I still don't see an explanation as to why black people would be overrepresented 2.5x in regards to forcible rape. However, I suppose you could argue that was a victimhood mentality that pushes them to do that.

#2: Why does this not hold true with every other race? Blacks are the ONLY race that are so incredibly overrepresented in EVERY area of violent crime? Why is it that poor Hispanics or poor white people or poor Asians do not have this same explosion of violent crime when they become poor? Is there an increase in violence when you remove income from people? Absolutely but this effect seems VASTLY exaggerated in the black community.

#3: And the main argument that refutes your assertion of poverty and the victimhood mentality that was pushed onto the black community by liberals... is that these statistics hold true for EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY that I've ever looked at. Regardless of the country, regardless of the history of that country and regardless of the way that blacks were treated in that country... in EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY these statistics hold true. Black people, REGARDLESS of their position, are ALWAYS overrepresented in regards to violent crime/behavior.

If it were simply a construct that is pushed upon black people in America, then these statistics would not be true for every single country that they are in. But it is true. So what does that mean?

 

So you don't dispute the facts provided... you simply refuse to acknowledge any paradigm which doesn't fit with your politically correct morality?

Here let me ask you... completely theoretical. Is there ANY scenario in which it is better to enslave a people than to allow them to be free?

For instance, if you had a group of people who, when subjugated, they act good, morally, without crime and violence. But when you allowed those people freedom, they acted with hatred, without morality, with constant crime and violence. This was true 100% of the time.

Would you acknowledge that it is better for those people to be subjugated than free?

 

..................................



I don't even have words.

 

I know... those statistics are disgusting aren't they. I didn't even want to type them all out.

ETA: Great rebuttal btw

 

Well thank you. Nice of you to say.

Often I find folks get caught up in citing statistics, and making wild suggestions. I welcomed the forum that allowed me to point out that whilst you may find your points valid, the suggestion that freeing blacks from enslavement may have been a mistake was a point I felt best pointed out on a moral level.

 

Slavery itself is not morally repugnant. Maybe to you but not to a rational person. For instance. If you have someone who is going to starve if left on his own and if left to his own devices is going to harm and commit violence against others. But if you were to subjugate this person, he would not starve because you would feed him well, and he would not be left to his own devices but would be guided to not commit harm or violence against others.

How can a rational person state that individual and society would not be better off subjugated?

 

They probably didn't want the competition. They had been raping, murdering and robbing black people for generations.

The rich rapists don't get arrested.

It isn't simple lack of money though, it's a deeper poverty of social exclusion and discrimination that continued long after slavery ended and, to an extent, continues today. It seems to have messed up so many aspects of US society, including the attitudes of many black people themselves, who often don't help the situation. It's not the kind of thing that can be fixed overnight, even if everyone wanted it to be.

 

Well aside from the fact that your conclusion about how they didn't want competition is ludicrous...

You do not address the later post I made in which I pointed out that these statistics are true ALL OVER THE WORLD.

So how can it be simply the way black people are treated in America?

 

Generally, I think profiling, residential concentration, and overzealous, unfair policing and prosecution explains lots of what you reference above, and may do so in other countries as well. I'm rabidly anti police, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. We have the highest incarceration rates in the world, higher then Libya, Yemen, N Korea, you get the point, and IME, police and a corrupt prosecution railroad -create- as much crime in the US as they catch real criminals. There is a demonstrated disproportionate impact on minorities from this overpowered, overlarge enforcement machine that is well-documented.

When you say things like "blacks commit lots more forcible rapes," don't you really mean to say that blacks are -arrested- and -convicted- for rape or plead to it more? IME, whites are given better deals, lesser sentences, allowed to plead down to lesser charges. Blacks are railroaded (poor whites also, but not as badly). White guy comes in with a lawyer and a sketchy "he said she said" rape charge is reduced to assault. Prosecutors (and I'm also rabidly anti prosecutor LOL) smell blood when the black guy comes in, lawyered or not. They know it's a much easier conviction due to residual racism in this country, and so deals offered blacks are much worse than what's offered whites IME. Despite the BS we see on TV, cops and prosecutors, even judges, are not these objective enforcers of justice, but rather bureaucrats seeking advantage and advancement (not all, just most IME). I would rather listen to the most racist Farrakhan type sermon than listen to slimy prosecutors rationalize the railroad they run with a straight face every day. The scariest thing is these people believe their own BS about "being the good guys."

IME there is a disproportionate representation of racists in cops and to a lesser extent prosecutors. They -enjoy- railroading minorities. They get off on it. So I'm not saying that this phenomenon explains -all- the stat disparity, but IME it explains lots of it in addition to factors listed prior. As far as other countries go generally, I'm not familiar enough to comment and think, like in every other statistically exacerbated fallacy, accepting this or that outcome based stat as dispositive of anything without more is a mistake out of context. It drives me crazy when the left does it (as they do all over this forum LOL) and drives me crazy elsewhere as well.

 

It was an, admittedly dark, joke. I think there is an element of truth behind it though.

The situation in America is due to the social history of America. The situations in other nations is due to their social histories (though there is obviously some cross-over). Anyway, I'm not sure there is quite as singular a picture across the world as you make out. The UK does have disproportionate statistics too, but not necessarily to the same scale. Places like Australia and New Zealand have similar issues but they relate to the indigenous communities there rather than their (albeit smaller) populations of West African descendants.

Incidentally, that does raise a question of who you're actually talking about when you say "black people". The term means different things to different people, at different times and in different places.

Basically, I don't think you've (yet) supported the narrative that "black people" in general are somehow fundamentally bad.

 

Do you spend most of your day analyzing black people?

 

This is the liberal viewpoint personified; That some 'great controlling power' knows what is best and should protect people from themselves by denying or eroding their freedoms. It could be that the 'great power' DOES know better, and that the people it seeks to control WILL be better off under subjugation, but freedom trumps free stuff, in my view. I would rather be free and poor and spiral into oblivion due to my own decisions than to be enslaved by some great controlling power that provides basic sustinance for me.

 

That's fine. You are FREE enough to live your life in this country however law-abiding way you choose. However, don't advocate for out politicians to adapt that same mentality. This country will NOT allow "freedom" to starve / poor / be exploited by the rich to spiral America back into the third world.

I'll be damned if I EVER vote in favor of conservative policies that seek to achieve that.

 

Most descendants of slaves have trouble with crime and family structure, especially when a pattern of racism continues for a substantial period of time. The racist white slaveowners are more to blame for those current statistics than any other factor, so they can hardly be pointed to as having some sort of secret insight.

Having said that, the increased reluctance to look at lingering racism, reverse racism and black cultural/community issues is not helping matters or making hopes of significant progress in the future likely. Why, for instance, is there still such a different black sub-culture today, to the point where the term Urban Music is a code phrase for "music by a black artist" regardless of whether it is rap or r&b or even reggae.

 

The US would have been a better, stronger country maintaining its white majority. The immigration laws should have never been changed from our preference of importing 1st world immigrants from areas of the world that shared similar histories, values, and cultures. You can't maintain a 1st world country with 3rd world stock.

Failing that, segregation should have been an option for areas that did not want to integrate. It should never have been forced on the country. Just as many, if not more, blacks dislike whites, and choose to live in segregated areas, so why are we trying to integrate people via social engineering projects? Is it simply to blend out the white race? As one progressive on this site recently stated, "dilution is the solution" to the white problem.

 

many of these blacks you mention above are actually part slave owner, their mothers\grand mothers were raped and they were the offspring, so maybe it's in their genes - real black people are as normal as real white people, good and bad among them

now what do you have to say for your support of those crazy old racist white guys.... and their offspring

.

 

Can you just admit that you are a racist?

 

Because I don't think races are necessarily inferior or superior to each other. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses.