I get free oil changes for life or as long as I own my vehicle...oil change takes about 20 minutes and they let me know if they find anything else during a free inspection...last oil change they noticed my water pump was leaking they replaced at my convenience for free after the warranty period had expired...last recall was for re-coating the frame a rust proofing issue, if there was any frame damage they would do frame replacement, serious dollar value...but there was none and for the inconvenience I was given a free loaner Camry for three days...
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...ress&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ACEW_en___US322 you got sold. the water pump was recalled.
your link didn't cover my model, there was no recall...and even if there was what do I care, they fixed something for free I expected a $400 charge isn't that what you expect the manufacturer to do? should I complain that they're too responsible? they should be like Ford and deny there's a problem? or like the time I had Chev and I had to fight with the dealer for 3 months to have faulty fuel pump replaced(they accused me of tampering with the fuel pump)?...
i expect to be kept informed of what's being done to my car. the Japanese are famous for not doing that. how you AND Chevy argued with a dealer reeks of BS. dealers are happy to replace anything they can bill under warranty. it pays a higher rate. how did you go 3 months with a "faulty" fuel pump? if you hadn't kept running the tank low, it wouldn't have overheated. in tank fuel pumps are funny like that. they depend on fuel for cooling since there's no air flow....or shouldn't be. if there was, you'd have a bigger problem.
toyota has never done anything to my vehicle without my knowledge... my new chev quit running repeatedly, all my experience told me it was the fuel pump the carb was not getting fuel, priming the carb with gas got it running again, the amount of fuel in the tank was never an issue, I had to keep a gas container in the trunk at all times...dealer never believed me despite it being repeatedly brought into the shop technician claimed it was impossible, not until there was talk of a lawsuit and full refund did they replace the pump and the problem was solved...and that was my last Chev, I shouldn't have to argue with the dealer to get something covered by warranty repaired...
carb? this was back in the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing 1980s??? but you're right about one thing, you should never have gone to that dealer again. - - - Updated - - - carb? this was back in the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing 1980s??? but you're right about one thing, you should never have gone to that dealer again.
yes mid 80's if I recall...that was how things were back then, dealers took their cue from the manufacturer regarding what was covered by warranty, probably one reason why so many people switched to Japanese cars...Toyota has in my experienced taken traditional Japanese pride in the quality of their product/reputation and why I have better resale value on my Toyota than a comparable Chev, Ford or Dodge product... dealers are a factor in where I buy, if the sales team is sleazy or I hear rumors from other customers of poor or incompetent service I buy elsewhere...it maybe unfair to other competent dealers of the same brand but I'm spending major dollars and I want dealers to suck up and fight for my return business...
Missed this... So, what engine & transmission does it have? Offhand, a 74 Torino could have one of no less than six different engines. (From a six cylinder to a 460!) It could have had one of three transmissions (I'm figuring an automatic), depending on engine.
well it has a automatic C6 tranny and a 351 cleveland. a little background on this particular Torino. the car was originally built off the line personally for some politician in SoCal and had a little "extra" put into it, basically that little extra was it was fitted with a dual carb and manifold set up straight out of the factory as well as a posi rear end. Well apparently the politician never came to pick it up and my Uncle happened to be shopping for a new car and came upon it and to his words he had to have it the moment he popped the hood. so he drove home in it and after a couple years of driving he did a few mods of his own. he bored the motor .30over, added a 3/4cam and then went from a dual carb to a 6pack, but i cant remember if he said holley or edelbrock made the particular set up so im gonna call him again to confirm that. he said a lot of stuff but he talks so fast its hard to understand him over the phone so when i go back to L.A. im just gonna have to sit down with him to get all the rest but he put A LOT into that car. Anyways he gave that car to my grandparents and they very rarely drove it and kept it in the garage basically only to bring it out to have it detailed or to stretch its legs every so often. the car was pristine until, between then and now, "borrowed" the car and traded the 6pack and manifold for a stock manifold and single carb. ever since then the car ran like (*)(*)(*)(*) and because my grandfather didnt know what he truly had because he didnt understand this stuff, and my brother was unaware of the modifications it stayed like that until my Uncle came around and noticed the manifold he bought was gone. Anyways i rode in this car before it was put down about 4 years ago, my brother tried having the carb rebuilt and as that helped a bit it still isnt running right a. but i will tell you that this car has some major balls, but sadly because of the theft of the 6pack its being held back.
Odds are you have a vacuum leak on the intake. Also it's possible the timing is out of whack from the switch. Cleves can be picky about such things. And with that cam, it could simply be starving for fuel. All else being the same, you have open chamber heads with a intake valve of 2.02 and an exhaust, I think, of 1.75. I think I remember most of the specs we used to build our dirt track Cleves. If you want some ideas for getting it up and running PM me and I'll help as best I can. We managed 358 HP with 357 CI, which is what the .30 over bore gives you for CI, for under $2000.
First...SURE it's a Cleveland? Ford had THREE 351's in the 70's: Cleveland, Windsor, and Modified. 74 wouldn't be a 351M, but could be a C or W. Second, the 2bbl & 4bbl used different heads. The 2bbl & 4bbl intakes are radically different...make sure you have the right one. Trans could be a C6 or the FMX...are you 100% sure it's a C6? If it was came off the line with a 2bbl, it might even have a C4. (Ford was notorious for all sorts of weird permutations...) FMX is easy to ID: the case is iron. (C4 & C6 are aluminum.)
ill definitely keep that in mind, ill be back in Los Angeles in the very near future because as it turns out im being pretty much forced to buy the car so im gonna go and transfer the title in my name. Im gonna pop the hood and get dirty and figure out exactly all whats on it, plus ill have a face to face talk with my uncle for more insight.
from my uncles words its a cleveland and it has a C6 trans. and like i said this car was not the typical Elite that was built back then, it came out modded and different per a former politicians requests. I mean out of the factory it "supposedly" had a dual carb set up. I mean i dont know, i never have looked under the hood of that thing. Ive only ridden in it once and before that i hardly even saw it when i did live back in LA. It definitely hauled ass is all i know, damned thing put me back in the seat when my brother smashed it on the freeway and we were already cruising at about 65mph. im gonna give it a good look over when i go back home, and ill take pictures of everything and post them here on this thread.
The 351C and the 351M are both part of the 335 series of Ford engines, along with the 400. The difference is that the M has a higher deck height. All 3 share the basic Cleve block. As for the Windsor, it has a "wet" intake, meaning coolant runs thru it. The Cleve has a "dry" intake. If the thermostat neck is in the intake, it is a Windsor. If it's built into the block, it is a 335 series engine. As for heads, that is irrelevant in this discussion. The last quench heads for the 335 series were manufactured in 70. After that all heads are identical for this series of engine. And the heads weren't really all that different back then. The quench heads had bigger valves, a smaller combustion chamber and bigger ports. If this an actual 74 Cleve it has the standard 2 bbl heads. The easiest way to tell is by running the numbers on the V.I.N. Code. But this is not always accurate. If you can find a way to see it, there is a number stamped on the front underside of the passenger side deck of the block, just above the oilpan It will tell you exactly what the engine is. . The reason I say that V.I.N. may not be accurate is that we once bought a 72 Merc that we were told had a 351C 2BBL engine. The V.I.N. said it should have been a 400. The engine turned out to be a 4 bolt main Cleve painted a factory teal green with a brass plate installed over the original casting number. We surmised that they had a bad 400 in production and this was a factory reman block that was installed instead. We bought the car from the original owner and he said that the engine had never been out of the car.
Whoa, what a pile. Easiest way to tell a C from a W is the valve covers: The Cleveland (and Modified/Michigan) use 8-bolt covers. Windsors (and 302's) use 6 bolts. 2bbl and 4bbl Cleveland heads are different, with the 4bbl having larger ports & velves...all M engines had 2bbls. Compared to the Cleveland, the Modified had larger bearings (same as a 351W). Note: 1974 was the last year for the 351 Cleveland.
I know that 74 was the last year for the Cleve, but the Cleve, the M and the 400 are all 335 series Ford motors. They are all based on the Cleve block. As for valve covers and such, you are correct. But the fastest way to tell the difference between the 335 series and the Windsor is still the thermostat housing. I already said 2BBL and 4BBL heads are different, but they can be interchanged if done right. I spent 3 years building them for dirt track. We didn't use the 4BBL heads because they flowed to well for our application. But unless there were some old quench heads left over from 1970, If the motor is a Cleve, it has the open chambered 2BBL heads with the 2.05 intakes and 1.75 exhaust. The M also has a ridge around the Distributor. The Cleve is flat there. The Cleve is also a 90 degree V8 while the Windsor is a 60 degree V8. View attachment 18787 How deep do you want to go into this jaraxle? The Cleve was known to have rear main oiling problems, the fix is an aux oil line running from the stock oil pressure guage outlet to a fitting on the rear of the block. The Cleve has non adjustable sled rockers that limits RPMs to around 5500. But with a fairly inexpensive kit from Crane you can turn them into a fully adjustable system the sets on three points of the timing.That bumps RPM to 6500+. The cam doesn't need a long duration, they work best with a higher lift and a 112 lobe separation. When you polish the intake runners, leave the bottom of them alone. The Cleve flows from the top of the runners, so you polish them and leave the roughness on the bottom to ensure proper mix. Want a quick 15-20 HP? install a crossover pipe in the dual exhaust to help scavenge the gases. Another 20 HP? get rid of the sled rockers and go to needle bearing fulcrums on the Crane adjustable system. The engine you see had 34 degrees of timing in it, idle at 800 RPM, turned 6700 RPM, and had a 4100 Autolite carb on top of it. The old quench heads needed to have a little work done to make them good for racing. You had to unshroud the 2.19 intake valve. But we found that were to big for the tracks we ran. Trannys. The C6 has a kick out on one corner, while the C4 and it's variants have a symmetrical pan. The C6 was a heavier use trans, which would make sense if this car was a special order. Building a hot Cleve is pretty basic, Balance the rotating, punch it .30, raise the lift, swap in an adjustable valve train, oil the rear mains, polish the top of the runners, and feed it.
No, wrong! The Windsor is a 90-degree V8. I'd never build a Cleveland now. It's not worth it anymore...if powering a land barge or a truck, I'd build a 400M or a 460. For a car, go for a 351W or a 331 or 347ci 302. You're stuck in the 70's, dude. Step into the here and now!
NASCAR still uses a version on the Cleve head on the Windsor based block. The 400M is and was a junk motor. It had all the attributes of the Cleve, with none of the durability. Small blocks are nice, but to my mind the Cleve is still one of the best motors ever built by Ford. Of course, if you try to stuff one in an old Granada, you have to blow holes in the inner fender to get to the plugs. As for the 460's, they are a good motor, but they are a heavy motor. They are nearly 800 lbs. I have no experience with the new 331 Engine. Depending on the body it was going in, I'd build another 450HP Cleve in a hot minute. Yeah, you can do alot with the 302's And they are a great motor. but I've always liked the Cleve simply because, if done right, they are almost impossible to blow. As the saying goes, A car is only as fast as your wallet.
Wow, what a pile. The 400M is a good motor. Proof? Several have placed high (and a couple have won) PHR's Engine Masters Challenge. One (built by Jon Kaase) made a stunning 640HP and 515lb/ft. A dude named Barrie Poole ran (and won) Super Stock out of Windsor, Ontario driving for Sandy Elliot Ford, running a 400M. Step out of 1975, dude. Hot Rod built one fifteen years ago and made 380HP for about two grand. LINK
Almost any motor can be good if you throw enough money at it. Was that 380HP built using stock cast intake and exhaust? The one I pictured used both, according to the rules of the time. Which was about the same time period as the 400 you mentioned. The difference is that the one you mentioned was built by people who spend their days building engines, with all the resources that money can buy. The Cleve we built was done by two shadetree mechanics in a kitchen. The Windsor block, with the Cleveland heads is still a hot motor today. They call it a Cleavor. It's the engine Ford uses in NASCAR. Nothing wrong with the engines of today, but most of what you can do with them can be done with computer upgrades. I'd rather research specs and tolerances to gain HP than simply punch numbers into a programmer
Since the Vette 327 engine is basically the same exact powerplant as the very popular 350 c.i. engine. What is the difference between the GM 350 c.i. and Ford 351.c.i. Or the Boss 302
Firing order of the pistons for one. And Ford made two different 351ci motors. One was the Windsor, which was basically a small block, and the Cleveland, which was a small big block.
You are right and I don’t know of any more subtle differences between the 327s other than the ones posted, wait...isn't cylinder spacing diff on the ford and chevy 327s? Oh there is at least one difference ; The ford 327 is better looking has more hp or can be built to a higher hp and its better all around than the 327 chevy! Lol. I am ford biased but really feel all the american brands are nearly the same and only personal preferences are different. My favorites are Ford then Chrysler/Dodge, then GM then Chevy, then Italian etc’s and other exotics lastly (Japanese) imports. Oh the old Pantera is a ford but really an Italian body etc with a ford V8 gauges interior etc which should had of been a 427-9 but was a 351-C. But ford never could compete with a Vette on the showroom floor. Lastly, the vette is the only chevy that I would save up my lunch money for, make mine a black on black 427 stingray ‘fast back’.
ie Again I agree, especially about the timing its easy to turn the distributor accident but that was prob checked when the intake and carb was replaced. Since the carb rebuilt and if it was correctly rebuilt I would guess the cam and or a vacuum leak. If it was mine and everything checked out I would switch to a mild hyd lifter cam . A question for you stretch since I am no fan of the 351C or the 400M for that matter despite their massive flowing heads I have always wondered if its true that the valves in stock heads flow too well (also heard valves are too large for stock motors) and are the source of some problems. I have had that very problem when building early baby Harley stroker motors (from 84 CI to 88CI shovels which were originally 74>80 CI) with head work (ie big valves). reva
Cars are a lump of metal that are expensive to run and nothing but a pain in the arse to own. Personally, I use a small Honda scooter that cost very little to buy, almost nothing to run and emits very little pollution. I need a car from time to time so I call a taxi. Far cheaper and I never have to consider finding a parking space, worry about a bump, the thing rusting or the devaluation wasting a load of money.
