What is a fact?

Yes, you believe the bible is true, that is a fact.
Is the bible 100% fact, only if you believe it. Some don't.

 

The point at which water freezes is not determined by our perception nor by the arbitrary number system used.

The freezing point of water is independent of the temperature scale used so it is not arbitrary.

It does not matter which numbers you choose for your temperture scale .. it does not matter a wit to the amount of energy loss necessary for water to freeze.

Im amazed that you still have not figured this out yet. In a previous post you even admitted that the freezing point of water was not arbitrary and then tried to accuse me of saying that it was arbitrary.

This gets irritating.

As to your second point .. I do not see how Christians would know the rules any better or any worse than anyone else.

What rules are subject to the individual will of the actors ?

 

Then what is the freezing point of water?

All of that statement above is an outright lie. The closest I have come to saying that there is no arbitrariness to the freezing point of water, is in my last post wherein I stated that "water freezes".

What is irritating to you is the fact that you cannot refute what I have stated in such a way that proves me to be in error.

Well, you can start with the big 10, then from there, we can proceed on to those mentioned by Jesus. That should be fun, considering that you don't like to entertain anything in the Bible that was not stated by Jesus.

 

The freezing point of water, under standard experimental conditions, is when the energy of the system is equal to 0 Celcius.

Nope .. you even accused me of saying the freezing point of water was arbitrary.

I have already refuted it. What part of "the freezing point of water is independent of the arbitrary numbers on the temperature scale" did you not understand.

I entertain much in the Bible that was not stated by Jesus .. I just do not think much of Paul but this is irrelevent.

Christians have no more knowledge of "the rules" than anyone else.

Jews have these rules .. and they actually know what the rules mean !!

Jews actually know what Adultery means .. Jews do not have a promise to God in their marriage vows.

Hindoo's believe that it is wrong to kill, steal, covet your neighbors wife .. and so on .. and so do agnostics.

Jesus did not invent "the Golden Rule" it can be found in numerous sources Confucious to Egyptian beliefs .. many centuries prior to Jesus.

 

Incorporeal..please, please, please I'm begging you to stop this nonsense..
I'm on the verge of banging my head against the wall and then sticking a gun down my throat and pulling the trigger each time I read one of your posts..
you seem like a nice guy but can this insanity you keep going on and on about really exists in you mind....I'm am truly concerned about you and get some help asap..
for the sake of those here at the PF please move on to something more constructive..I'm sure we would all love to hear something different from you such as what types of food you enjoy and the joys of some of girls you might be dating..I'm thinking only of your well being and guess I can always block your posts..honestly, I'm not trying to be rude but just concerned for you..
thank you and be well..
CD

 

Just to clarify .. it is you who is the "outright" liar.

I have consistently claimed the freezing point of water is "NOT" arbitrary.

You were the one claiming that the use of numbers on the standard/measurment stick makes the freezing point of water arbitrary.

It was me that told you that the reason the arbitrary choosing of numbers on a standard does not matter because the freezing point of water is independent of those numbers.


Get a grip.

 

You know, I could very easily take the same attitude as you and say "please please please stop all this nonsense". It has to be nonsense to folks like you to engage in conversations about religion and the existence of God and the Holy Spirit, when you have already convinced yourself that those entities don't exist. So, what exactly is psychologically normal or appropriate for one to engage in conversation about things that they don't believe to exist? You see, if I were an atheist or non-theist, I would not engage in such conversations, as it would contaminate the soil of my mind. . . it would interfere with my time in which I could spend on more productive matters such as determining how much longer it is going to be before we can develop a colony on Pluto and then expand on to bigger and better universes. Or in the case of some others, I would spend more time on the development of a better human body made from scratch... starting with nothing more than dirt and water.

So keep on begging. Because that is exactly what you are doing.... But my King will not allow me to express such things with any serious intent,,, so when I say those things, I am saying them mockingly. Mocking the fact that you are begging.

 

There you go, using an arbitrary standard ... a scale... that you previously said was irrelevant. So, what you are now indicating is that the freezing point of water is 'dependent' on one of those arbitrary scales created by the mind of man in a very arbitrary manner. Why do you contradict yourself?

You admitted that the scales are arbitrary, so if the scales are arbitrary, then any resulting answer obtained from that arbitrary scale is also arbitrary because it is based on arbitrariness.

I completely understand that the freezing point of water is the freezing point of water. What you are not understanding is the fact that the scales are arbitrary and the numbers placed on the scales are based on arbitrary imaginations about that freezing point.

Your bias is not irrelevant when the writings of Paul are included in the Bible. Your biased opinion of Paul clouds your judgment on what Paul said. Why exactly don't you like what Paul had to say?

On what scripture do you base that opinion?

It is also evident that the Jews persecuted Jesus yet you desire to place the Jews in a position of knowing more than those that follow Jesus? Why then do the Jews not practice what they KNOW so much about?

Do they really? Then why are there Jews out there that commit adultery?

And yet, members of each of those religious groups that you mention, also go about committing adultery. My oh my. You sure are not making a case to support your position.

So now you are attempting to defame that same Jesus in which His word is the only word in the Bible that you will accept without question? WOW! You seem to have gone through a complete wash cycle with an overdose of bleach.

 

round and round we go..where it stops no one knows..

 

Then quit spinning the wheel.

 

The freezing point of water is not dependent on the scale. It is dependent on the amount of energy in the system.

Regardless of the scale you use F, C, K .. the energy in the system is exactly the same.

So .. while the numbers on the temperature scale are arbitrary the freezing point of water remains exactly the same in terms of energy.

32 F = 0 C

Wrong .. freezing point of water is "independent" of the measuring stick used.

The freezing point of water does not change on the basis of the number attached to a thermometer in terms of energy.

32 F is exactly the same as 0 C in terms of Energy.

I have stated numerous times, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over .....

THE NUMBERS ON THE SCALES ARE ARBITRARY BUT THIS DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT THE FREEZING POINT OF WATER IS NOT ARBITRARY BECAUSE THE FREEZING POINT OF WATER IS NOT DEPENDENT ON THE SCALE USED TO MEASURE IT

Here .. try reading your own words .. I think you actually got it at one point but have since gone so far into denial that you forgot your own words.

You are either a nutter or a troll .. not a happy choice but what else should I conclude ?

He did not have much respect for women .. and he had wierd ideas about sex.

?

Why would I base it on scripture ?

You were talking about the 10 commands. Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that these commands existed prior to Jesus and they had something to do with a group of people called israelites.

Ummm .. you will have to ask them. Why do Christians commit adultery ?

In any case Married Men could sleep around according to the Israelite definition of adultery, so long as it was not with another mans wife.

Women however could not. A bit of a double standard but thats how it was.

Multiple wives and numerous concubines were fine and common to those who could afford them .. including most of the patriarchs.

So do Christians .. and your point ?

How have I defamed Jesus ? .. He did not invent the Golden Rule .. so what.

It is not the only word in the Bible that I will accept but I do accept his words. It does not bother me one bit that the Golden rule was invented prior to Jesus use of it .. "why reinvent the wheel"

Jesus was a smart fellow.

 

And you are still using the scale, which you admit is arbitrary, so your conclusion of 32 F = 0 C is also arbitrary, irrespective of the amount of "energy in the system". Now how much energy is in the system when you make that finding of 32 F = 0 C? What are you going to do,,,, use another arbitrary scale???????

Your rationalizations are pathetic and circular. Nuff said on that subject. Good nite.

 

The amount of energy remains constant. Use the letter C .. it doesn't matter. Regardless of the temperature scale used, the freezing point of water will always be C.

What is pathetic is your lack of ability to grasp the simple concept that the freezing point of water does not change given the same experimental conditions.


Every symbol in the alphabet is arbitrary .. does this make language arbitrary/meaningless ?

Does the fact that the letters are arbitrary somehow make the meaning of the words created change over time ?

Do you really think the force of gravity changes over time because there are different scales used to measure it ?

Do you think the energy required to freeze water changes from time to time because there are different scales used to measure it ?

You are at the back end of a losing argument ... done like dinner.

 

Why not use "d" or "M" ??? They are equally arbitrary.

Why is it necessary to conduct an experiment? Look in your freezer or look outside when there is snow on the ground. If the water is frozen the water is frozen. Placing an arbitrary number or an arbitrary letter on it does not change the fact that the water is frozen. Nor does the water being frozen tell you that it froze at this arbitrary point or another arbitrary point? What is pathetic is your inability to comprehend that an arbitrary condition creates an arbitrary result. The arbitrary condition is your numbers and letters.

To some on this forum yes. Especially those that prefer to disregard the definitions of terms.

Make the letters completely arbitrary and yes, the meanings would change immediately.

Regardless of the scale. If you are using a scale, then it is arbitrary. Changing the subject from water to words and letters to gravity, only shows that you are grasping at straws. STRAW arguments. Obfuscation.

Now we are back to the energy thing, when we have not even concluded the water, letters, words, meanings, gravity,.... A scale of measurement, which scale was made by man, is completely arbitrary, regardless of what you are measuring.

And you are at the forefront of complete failure. A meal tossed into the garbage due to inefficient cooking techniques.

 

It's a fact that you hold a belief that the Bible is true and real. That says nothing about the validity of your belief and since it's your belief it doesn't qualify as fact anyway.

 

With the understanding that this thread is in the Religion forum the question of "what is a fact" obviously reflects an attempt to rationalize that all statements made by "religion" are factual. Of course that is false but the attempt to rationalize it is noted.

The "fact" is that people will believe whatever they choose to believe and they will make claims about "facts" but often those are just rationalizations of their beliefs.

There is no more evidence of the God of Abraham than there is of the God Zeus or of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. All of these beliefs represent myth and superstition and are not based upon any facts. There is no evidence, for example, of "creationism" or "intelligent design" and these are myths created by "men" to support their beliefs. They're based upon the fact that if a person piles the (*)(*)(*)(*) high enough people will believe the (*)(*)(*)(*).

 

Great attempt at rationalization on your part Shiva_TD. You overlooked one thing in your attempt. That overlooked item is the very definition that is in question. Your rationalization, attempts to (without any authority from the company which published the definition, or even any scholarly authority) say that such definition is either non-existing or that the definition is obsolete or that the definition was included by error. Your rationalization of the definition attempts to deny reality in that the definition does exist, does say what it says, and is applicable to any inference that may be taken from the existence of said definition. You are acting illogical in that regard.

This thread is about "what is a fact"; NOT about 'evidence of God', but because you have brought up the subject of any kind of 'evidence, I am also still waiting for that Mayan religious meaning of 'evidence' that you spoke about in another thread and have yet to produce.

 

LOL. The quote that you presented is very telling. When clicking on that link, it immediately redirects to a page where the very opening command line is one that was the result of me quoting your former statements where you used manipulated html code to obscure the chain of dialogue. Your intent in using such manipulated html code is now revealed by this posting of yours, where you now claim that your words are my words. Poor excuse on your part for calling me a liar. I am making another report of this to the moderators. Perhaps this time they will be able to see the problems you have generated by using html code in an ignorant fashion.

Your claims above are irrelevant due to your own inability to use html code.

 

OK .. lets try this in reverse .. perhaps you will better understand.

If the freezing point of water was arbitrary, when you measured the freezing point using the same measuring stick under the same experimental conditions you would get different results.

This does not happen .. you get the same result every time which proves the freezing point of water is not arbitrary.

What do you mean "make the letters arbitrary". Obviously the letters of the alphabet are already arbitrary.

 

No! Lets try this by staying on topic. You, your bs html manipulations, and off-topic issues has pretty much destroyed this thread. So, if you want to discuss the 'freezing point of water', then open a thread in the science section of this forum. The definition of 'fact' includes that which is of a subjective nature, and therefore is not restricted to science per se. Trying this in reverse would conceivably infer getting back on topic.

Start your discussion of science and laboratory experiments in the science section of PF.

You are the one who declared that they are arbitrary.

and:

Grow up kiddo.

 

ROFL .. numbers on the measuring stick are arbitrary but letters of the alphabet ar not .

You really will do anything to escape being proven wrong.

Back to the question at hand ..

If the feezing point of water is arbitrary then how come when you use the same measuring stick and under the same experimental conditions the freezing point of water is always the same ?

 

So now you want to totally overlook the fact that it was you that stated the letters and symbols of the alphabet are all arbitrary. How lame can you really get?

 

it might be a few facts that the sentences saying that seem to have bin posted is a fact

That it apparently came from a certain user is a fact

if that’s how you actually feel then it’s a fact about how you feel

if the bible is true and real then that’s a fact about the bible as well

 

Amazing that 50% of your statements above deal with 'feelings' and the other two deal with what is perceived as tangible items, though perception is also a subjective matter. So, all in all, because all of your statements deal in subjective matters, then it can be concluded on that basis, that subjective matters can be a 'fact'.

 

I did not overlook that fact at all.

Trying run and hide from the question by making stuff up will not help you escapt the fact that your claim, "the freezing point of water is arbitrary" is wrong.

Let me repost the question for you.

If the freezing point of water is arbitrary why do you get the same results when using the same measuring stick under the same experimental conditions ?