Which Vision of America Will Win Out?

America in its current form is through. Social democracy won't be imposed because it needs the existing order based on the fusion of Big Govt., Big Business and Big Labor. The impending collapse will sweep them away, at least as we conceive of them now.

Limited Govt. may be the default mode because nothing else is affordable. The only remaining alternative is chaos in which historical forces and processes will impose a new reality on America that renders the disputes of left and right moot.

 

It depends upon the attitudes and the specific circumstances. "Limited government" as used today means a lot of things. To liberals it pretty much means a government that doesn't bust down your door in the middle of the night, for capital C conservatives it means a government that mostly doesn't interfere with business and has the power to bomb the hell out of every poor country that doesn't bow to America's will, and will leave you to your own devices as long as you're not trying to marry someone with the same genitalia as you or were born in the wrong country. If you're a lowercase c conservative then limited government means a government that follows a layout for government in a world wholly dissimilar from ours and which in its original context condones slavery.
If it were between the way that conservatism has evolved (uppercase C) I would prefer a social democracy where at least the manipulation of the government that happens benefits the poor and the rich instead of just the rich and the tendency towards imperialism is greatly curbed. In theory out of the major options I would prefer lower case c conservatism but the fact is that it's unsustainable in the current environment, through the simple democratic gains or through corporate/special interest corruption. Social democracy outright is better than this deformed halfbreed o a system that has most of the downsides without most of the upsides.
Until something fundamentally changes, real, optimal limited government is unsustainable and so there might as well be social democracy so that some real change in public opinion can actually occur.
I'm sorry if this is a roundabout explanation but it's a complex question and context matters.

 

There is a major push for protectionism swelling in the bottom, and an even bigger anti-central bank push. For the majority of Americans who are interested in politics, globalism is a dirty word. The question is how long can the ELITE keep pushing free trade down our throats while the majority either doesn't want it, or will not want it as soon as someone describes to them the difference between free trade and protectionism. No working person would pick free trade when presented the facts of both. An even bigger question is how long can the elite pretend the people of America have a say in the way the country is ran as more and more information is spread grass roots style. It is easy to mask the pretend "people's government" on all major issues, but free trade and the FED are 2 issues there is no getting around.

 

America cannot survive as a manufacturing export power. We're a financial services country now. That's just the way it is. If you are not invovled in an industry that is involved in the transportation of people, products, money or ideas.. you are going to work for McDonald's. It's just that simple.

 

The socialists and extreme-left in America are a small minority.

Only about 20% consider themselves modern "Liberals."

It's obvious that we lean to the Right not the Left.

 

The problem is that we can't get the American People to let go of an all encompassing social security and medicare/medicaid system.

We as a country are refusing write people off for the good of the rest of us and it's going to cost us dearly in decades to come. It is possible for a society to have too much empathy.

The larger the population, the more difficult it becomes to remain a humane society. If we had 1.1 billion people like China, we'd be a totalitarian state as well probably. There wouldn't be any other way to maintain order and allocate scarce resources.

 

It's a negotiation, a tough one, but not impossible.

It's clear to me that if we don't reform those institutions they will default and the government will eventually collapse under the weight of our spending. I think we can reform them, transition them to privatization and do so as a promise to the American people that we wont allow the entire country to collapse.

 

LOL. You act as if we can't have both, myth 1.

You act as if a strictly service based economy can sustain itself, it can't, myth 2.

You will get your way, for awhile. If there was a way for America to boom in this current climate, that is everything you want, bet your butt it would. It can't. It won't. America's greatest minds are trying to figure out how to fix things. They can't. They want their cake and eat it too. Doesn't work like that. Typical neocon BS. Do you really want a nation of hobos? Globalism, from the view point of the nations with more, is a socialist endeavor. The majority will lose, and those who make all the gains, as there is no way for the middle class on down to "globalize" their skills, will have to make up the difference in taxes. It's not just going to be either you're a millionaire on up or you starve. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Either society can produces jobs, a strong middle class that can pay for themselves, or the top pays all the bills. 300 million people aren't going to just disappear. You are supporting the climate for 90% of Americans to turn left over night, for the simple fact they have no choice. If their was a world government today, bet your bottom dollar Americans would vote with the rest of the world to curtail the global robber barons, and capitalism no longer exists for humanity again. The robber barons of the early 20th century led to the current American political climate, and one could some it up as crony capitalism for the top, and producer created socialism with little perks for the bottom. This is the future for the world. Uber wealthy with zero rules, the rich on down owned by their puppet state apparatus.

 

Maybe the world will end before we have complete Social Democracy or the Limited Government we should have.

Doesn't seem like anyone is learning from their previous mistakes.

 

America does not have a "vision".

It has a mirage though.

 

I believe the Founding of this Country and the Supporters of the Orginal Intent of the Republic would disagree with you.

 

There you have it folks, when libruls are confronted with their idiot views of the world and inability to read and comprehend even the most basic language, they resort to irrational insults.

Any questions?

Thanks again for proving my case; carry on.

 

Very true, truth detector!

When liberals cannot attach the message, they instead attack the messenger!

 

Who cares? We live in a different time.

 

Hasn't Silicon Magician noticed that the financial services sector rests on the bedrock of the US Dollar and its peculiar position as the de facto world currency( the reason quantitative easing works)? What will happen to his vision of technocrats and peons when faith in the US Dollar is destroyed and its value plummets (not declines, plummets) as everybody and his brother off-loads it. I'm not saying this will happen in the next few days nor the next few months or even the next few years, but I do predict it will occur within the next 10 to 15 years at the outside. The stress points are already obvious and the political will to tackle the problem is underwhelming at best.

1. There are too many dollars and dollar instruments for the size of the American economy by a sizeable margin. This works for now because people currently want to hold US Dollars so the amount of US Dollars in everyday use remains close to the right amount, but what is the effect if they don't want them and dump the stockpile of extra dollars on the open market?

2. The debt of the United States continues to increase. I am not talking just the federal debt here (although it is definitely the most important), but also state debt (most states are in debt) and private debt (Americans are net borrowers rather than net savers). This means that gradually a greater percentage of American debt of all types is being held outside the country.

3. The United States continues to spend way too much on its military. Effectively we are still at near-Cold War levels of spending and have no Cold War opponent to rationalize that level of spending. Surely we only need to be a step above the competition, when we can't afford (in the long run) to try and remain 2 or 3 steps above the competition.

4. The demographic bomb is coming. The Baby Boomers are approaching retirement and increasing ill health ((*)(*)(*)(*) those seniors!) and Social Security and Medicare are in no position to cover the bill when it comes due. On the other hand Baby Boomer seniors will be THE voting bloc no politician will be able to ignore. The inevitable result is Congress will try to make bricks without straw.

5. As the Eurozone crisis shows, economic shocks and downturns inevitably occur sooner or later in a globalized economy. Is the United States going to be able to meet its bills if it gets caught in a spiral of rising costs and inflation and diminished revenues?

I would argue that like the Greece of 2011, the United States of America of 2021 (rough guess) will inevitably default or seriously 'restructure' its debt. The shock this will cause to the American credit rating, desirability of the US Dollar, American and global economy cannot be easily overestimated.