FoxHastings said: ↑ Do you think people can just willy nilly harm others with no consequences??? Why? LOL, stumped ya again...I NEVER said I """"justify any level of violence just by screaming "SELF DEFENSE"!!""" But if one is being harmed and have only one recourse to stop the harm then they have a right to do that...it's called self defense.....a right everyone should have.. Here's where you start posting , "bad format! , bad format!"
And please tell us where the "right to self defense" appears in the U.S. Constitution. And yeah, your formatting sucks bricks..
FoxHastings said: ↑ Do you think people can just willy nilly harm others with no consequences??? Why? LOL, stumped ya again...I NEVER said I """"justify any level of violence just by screaming "SELF DEFENSE"!!""" But if one is being harmed and have only one recourse to stop the harm then they have a right to do that...it's called self defense.....a right everyone should have.. Here's where you start posting , "bad format! , bad format!" RIGHT ON SCHEDULE.. OK, someone starts beating you so you just take it because the Constitution doesn't say "Dayton3 can protect himself ""...LOL go for it!!!
I am not arguing about "person". That is a spiritual argument. My argument is that it is human, and alive. Both of which is scientific fact. Our government should be relying on science and not basing its decisions on spirituality. Remember, separation of church and state? As such whether a ZEF is a "person" or not is not relevant. What matters is what science says. And science says that a ZEF is a unique human that is alive. Science also disregards that it is like a "cancerous tumor". That is just you dehumanizing it in order to justify abortions. Much like how slavers dehumanized black people in order to own them, beat them, and kill them. Oh, and by the by...a Fetus most certainly has a brain that is functioning. LINK: Pregnancy - week by week - Better Health Channel
. Silly to argue since we agree...a live human fetus is alive and human....that does NOT give it rights NOPE, rights....the government should be protecting our rights and that includes women's right to their own bodies . IT is relevant....IF it's a person it would have rights...it isn't a person so doesn't have rights.. I NEVER said a fetus was like a cancerous tumor...I said a cancerous tumor can be removed because it's causing harm. I do NOT NEED to dehumanize a fetus....it is human and can be killed....no problem for me... OH YA WANT TO TALK ABOUT SLAVERY ???! OKEY DOKEY IF abortion is banned it means that women lose their right to bodily autonomy, exactly what happened to SLAVES I'll raise your " by the by" with a fact....most abortions are performed BEFORE a ZEF has brain function....
By virtue of being human it has Rights. I agree, it should also protect Rights. One of the main ones is a Right to Life. Without life, there are no other Rights. . Again, "person" is a spiritual argument. Has no bearing on the argument what so ever due to Separation of Church and State. Nah, you just referenced cancerous tumors. As if they were equivalent. Got it. You have no regard towards human life. False, slaves had no choice from the very start. However a woman that voluntarily has sex knowing that there is a possibility of getting pregnant. By doing so she is giving up her own bodily autonomy. No one is forcing her to have sex and get pregnant. The only exception being rape cases, in which case it was not her choice and I have no problem with aborting. The "by the by" was an aside. It actually is not relevant to the discussion. Just an educational moment. Brain function has no bearing on whether or not a ZEF is human life.
OK, so your big toe has rights, afterall it IS human....now can your big toe freely harm others? No, a ZEF being human does not give it rights especially MORE rights than anything else that's human. And you seem to want it to have more rights than anyone else. ....except for women's rights ???? No, "person" is a designation of born people.....and I never mentioned religion... Yes, anything inside your own body causing you harm may be removed. ..... you have no regards for women's lives.. Slaves were PEOPLE born with the right to bodily autonomy and it was taken away from them JUST WHAT Anti-CHOICERS WANT TO DO TO WOMEN. Are you saying women have no choice right from the start ? Why? Don't you view them as humans? WHAT! You think that when women have sex they lose their rights!!!! You think women have committed a crime by having sex !!! What other rights do people lose when they have sex? The right to vote? The right to own land? THERE IT IS , FOLKS! The TRUTH.....Anti-Choicers simply want to punish women for having consensual sex. They only think a ZEF has rights if the woman had consensual sex.....IF THE WOMAN WAS RAPED THEY ALL OF A SUDDEN DON'T VALUE THE LIFE OF THE FETUS and think it can be killed even if it did nothing wrong
My big toe has every right to not be killed by you. A ZEF has just as much Right to live as does anyone else. There is no "more" about it. Like I said, any woman that voluntarily has sex knowing it can lead to pregnancy also voluntarily gives up her bodily autonomy the moment she becomes pregnant. Doesn't matter what you call it. It has always been used to indicate as being something more than a ZEF. As having a soul. I reject the word when it comes to talking about abortion. IE: You are dehumanizing it in order to justify killing it. Sorry, the "i'm rubber you're glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks on you" grade school name calling does not work. You're the one that straight up admitted that you have no problem if a human gets killed. See how you have to put things out of context in order to make any argument? No matter how stupid it may be. All you can do is spin and twist what is said. It shows that you have lost the argument and how dishonest you are. See, spin again. Its all you have left. You can't argue against the facts.
FoxHastings said: ↑ OK, so your big toe has rights, afterall it IS human....now can your big toe freely harm others?
Reformat that please so that it can actually be responded to. IE: Learn to use the quote function properly. I'm not going to copy paste every little thing just because you can't quote properly. And while you're at it provide evidence that I have said anything that you claim to say that I say.
FoxHastings said: ↑ OK, so your big toe has rights, afterall it IS human....now can your big toe freely harm others? LOL, the old " bad format" excuse... we go back and forth for days and you don't seem to have a problem but when you are stumped it's """OH, I can't address posts with bad formats!!!!!"" You were quite capable of replying to this post...gee, what happened ?
Actually I had commented on your formatting before. This time however you quoted everything. And when you quote everything, nothing can be responded to unless you quote/paste from the post itself as whatever is quoted is not brought to a new post using the quote post function. And quite frankly you're simply not worth the time to copy/paste and parse everything you said from what I said. So either do it in a way that I can actually respond without having to copy/paste everything or you can continue believing that you won some imaginary battle just because I'm not responding to you the way you want due to your crappy formatting. You don't have to believe me btw. Ask anyone that you would trust how your posts look.
FoxHastings said: ↑ OK, so your big toe has rights, afterall it IS human....now can your big toe freely harm others? LOL, the old " bad format" excuse... we go back and forth for days and you don't seem to have a problem but when you are stumped it's """OH, I can't address posts with bad formats!!!!!"" You were quite capable of replying to this post and others ...gee, what happened ?
sorry tut are you getting your “facts” from the “better health channel”? Pick the “human” lols! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_pregnancy_controversy Whether of not a foetus is a human is NOT “scientifically established”, yes we talk about a “human embryo” and that is to distinguish it from other embryos but the controversy over when to consider an embryo a human and certainly when it gains “rights” is a philosophical and legal and linguistic one https://theconversation.com/defining-when-human-life-begins-is-not-a-question-science-can-answer-its-a-question-of-politics-and-ethical-values-16551 Oh! And I like to get my information on embryology and foetal development from an actual academic source https://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php/Main_Page
I don't care what the conversation is. I'm basing my info on scientific facts. It has unique DNA, it is human DNA. It sure as hell can't be any other life forms DNA. And it has that unique human DNA at the zygote stage. The whole "Defining when human life begins is not a question science can answer – it’s a question of politics and ethical values" is nothing more than sophistry to promote particular spiritual ideals. I've eliminated that completely in my argument because the government should not be concerned about spirituality. And here's a "more acceptable" link for you...its a .gov link so enjoy. LINK: Fetal development: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia
A ZEF does not harm anything. Its simply there. A "right to harm" implies that it is actively seeking to harm. It cannot do that. Any harm that occurs is a side effect of being pregnant. The ZEF did not choose to be there. The ZEF does not choose to cause harm. Its simply there.
Sorry but have you never heard of an ectopic pregnancy? Let alone the myriad of health issues associated with pregnancy
No you are NOT “basing it on scientific facts”. “Science” in both your links does not define an embryo as a human in fact it specifically states The zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) needed to become a baby What it does NOT say is that it actually at that point IS a baby and I would challenge even the statement it does include (although I do understand this is a site that is written for viewing by the general public) because not every zygote DOES a contain “all of the genetic information”. Whoever wrote that is glossing over those zygotes that have gross genetic and chromosomal abnormalities Oh! And your link is still not would be considered a text or academic source. UNSW Embyology site is in effect, a medical text online and one of the main world wide academic resources for embryology
Human's have Rights. Whether you want to acknowledge that or not is not relevant. But by all means, continue treating them like Dems did during the slavery era.
BORN humans have rights....have ya got an SSN for a ZEF YET??? Has a ZEF been counted in the census?? Here we go AGAIN: OH YA WANT TO TALK ABOUT SLAVERY ???! OKEY DOKEY IF abortion is banned it means that women lose their right to bodily autonomy, exactly what happened to SLAVES.... freedom and liberty destroyed by REPUBLICANS
So, it is your contention that the woman is pregnant because of a bear? A wolf? A rabbit? What do you think it is if you don't think its got distinct human DNA? And even if it does have "gross genetic and chromosomal abnormalities" how would that make it not human? Lets see the spin that you will place to deny a ZEF's being human.
