Why abortion is a good thing

I would love to discuss these things with you but when you say things like pregnancy is "an assault", I have a difficult time.
It is literally pitting a baby against a woman. Literally.

I'm glad to hear from a male how the "physical changes are PERMANENT" and a "devastating assault" on a female's body.

 

Yes, an assault.
In some states if a woman is raped and impregnated the pregnancy is considered an injury.


EVERY pregnancy carries the risk of death.

From the moment a woman becomes pregnant her immune system is compromised and her blood pressure is affected.

If you experienced the following wouldn't YOU think it was an assault...or just funsy?
Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:
•exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
•altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
•nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
•heartburn and indigestion
•constipation
•weight gain
•dizziness and light-headedness
•bloating, swelling, fluid retention
•hemmorhoids
•abdominal cramps
•yeast infections
•congested, bloody nose
•acne and mild skin disorders
•skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
•mild to severe backache and strain
•increased headaches
•difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
•increased urination and incontinence
•bleeding gums
•pica
•breast pain and discharge
•swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
•difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
•inability to take regular medications
•shortness of breath
•higher blood pressure
•hair loss or increased facial/body hair
•tendency to anemia
•curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
•infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
•extreme pain on delivery
•hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
•continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
•stretch marks (worse in younger women)
•loose skin
•permanent weight gain or redistribution
•abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
•pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
•changes to breasts
•increased foot size
•varicose veins
•scarring from episiotomy or c-section
•other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
•increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
•loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
•higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
•newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:
•complications of episiotomy
•spousal/partner abuse
•hyperemesis gravidarum
•temporary and permanent injury to back
•severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
•dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
•pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
•eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
•gestational diabetes
•placenta previa
•anemia (which can be life-threatening)
•thrombocytopenic purpura
•severe cramping
•embolism (blood clots)
•medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
•diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
•mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
•serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
•hormonal imbalance
•ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
•broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
•hemorrhage and
•numerous other complications of delivery
•refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
•aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
•severe post-partum depression and psychosis
•research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
•research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
•research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:
•peripartum cardiomyopathy
•cardiopulmonary arrest
•magnesium toxicity
•severe hypoxemia/acidosis
•massive embolism
•increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
•molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
•malignant arrhythmia
•circulatory collapse
•placental abruption
•obstetric fistula



More permanent side effects:
•future infertility
•permanent disability
•death.

 

I thought I made my stance clear enough mate, namely that the mother could choose to have an abortion IF there are pregnancy complications that put her life at risk, or if scans show the baby would be born severely handicapped physically or mentally.

 

Yes, that you made clear, afterall , it's quite obvious a woman can decide for herself.

BUT YOU asked "doesn't the father get a say ?"......as a segue away from answering other questions....now you're swinging back to another issue...

Unlike YOU I answered and said no, why would he get a say? If his "say" was to tell her to get an abortion does that mean she has to? (UNANSWERED)
YOU can't answer that because what you really meant was , "why can't the father force her to have the kid, your interpretation of "have a say" ..."
Now , care to go back and answer the questions you keep ducking ? Care to explain what you mean by the father "gets a say"?

 

Okay, suppose you accidentally get your ladyfriend preggers and she's shocked and wants an abortion, but you're delighted and want her to have the baby. What happens then?
After all it's as much your baby as hers isn't it?

 

No, it is not.

What do you want for the father? To be able to force her to have a kid?

What if the father ISN'T delighted and wants her to have an abortion? Do you want his "say" to be "have an abortion" ?

You haven't thought this through...

....at least try to answer the bolded....

 

If the mum and the father both agree to an abortion there'd be no problem would there?
It's only if they disagree that arguments occur isn't it?

 

Yes. But that isn't an answer at all. It's not even relevant. Try again. Try answering the actual question bolded below.



What if the father ISN'T delighted and wants her to have an abortion? Do you want his "say" to be "have an abortion" ?


You haven't thought this through.......at least try to answer the bolded....

 

The "assault" nonsense is a ludicrous fringe viewpoint. You are a very confused person.

Don't change the subject to rape.

 

Declaring that pregnancy has no effect on a woman's body is a ludicrous fringe viewpoint. NO one has ever proven that pregnancy doesn't cause harm. NO one.

I didn't change the subject to rape, I gave an example of how pregnancy affects women even in the law, you're the one who seems confused...

 

I'm against abortion if there's no valid reason, so I hope she'd tell him "On yer bike, I'm having this baby whether you like it or not!"..

 

So really your little "father has a say" scenario has nothing to do with anything.......you just don't like abortion or women having the same rights you do.
So why do you bring up these silly anecdotal stories?

 

And medical abortions? You know the ones done in the first 8 weeks`1?

 

What about them?

 

What is a "valid reason?"

Depression? (And here I am not talking about a bit sad but perinatal depression which is a debilitating and life threatening disorder). Good luck at defining though who is at risk and who is not

Cardiomyopathy? After all it won't necessarily KILL them - just put them on medication for possibly the rest of their lives

How about the family is strapped and there just is not enough money for another mouth to feed (a significant number of women having abortions are in stable relationships)

Or he has just left her and the kids?

Or his abuse is increasing and pregnancy would tie her to him to the point she could not escape

Or teen - homeless

Or teen - pregnant by mother's boyfriend

Who are you to judge what another considers "valid" or sufficient?

And I am just betting you are one of those who think condoms work 100% of the time..........

- - - Updated - - -

Are they only to be done for a "valid reason"? Remember that at this stage the foetal development is less than kidney bean sized and the abortion is little more than a late period

 

Every case is different..
Perhaps a good compromise would be for a woman to have the baby even if she doesn't want it, then have it adopted or put in an orphanage, is that a good idea?

 

I'm against fat people stuffing their fat faces with more crap food but it's not like I can do anything about that. Looks like neither of us will get what we want. Aww.

 

So who determines what degree of health risk she should take? Who assists with income during her pregnancy if she cannot work? Who assists with removing her from the abusive situation if she is pregnant? Who feeds and houses her if she is a teen, homeless and pregnant?

Yes every case is different and who is to be that judge? BTW who is going to adopt THAT many children?

Oh! And you did not answer the point about contraception because if we had a reliable affordable contraception then abortion is unnecessary

 

I would! For example a woman in another forum said her parents threw her out when she became preggers as a teenager so i said "If I'd have known, I'd have invited you to live in my spare room at my expense"..

 

Capital letters don't improve your argument.

You're currently pushing this line of argument that a fetus is nothing more than something that causes harm to the woman who carries it.
Although, you tried to incorporate "rape", which is a whole other subject.
It's ludicrous. You're just the only one who doesn't understand this, evidently.

The reason why this argument is not persuasive is because of implied consent.

In the case of unwanted pregnancy, a woman and her partner voluntarily engaged in an activity known to cause pregnancy.
The woman knew this fact at the time of the activity.
She either chose to not use contraception, or, she was using contraception that is explicitly known as having the possibility of failure.
The woman and her partner voluntarily chose to engage in the activity knowing there is a possibility of pregnancy.

This is enough in any court to show implied consent.

 

So the OP laid out an argument as to why abortions are good using the Donohue–Levitt hypothesis. It appears this theory has been hotly contested. You all can google for the details yourselves. But, even if there are quantifiable benefits to society that aren't as controversial can we still call abortion "good". I don't know...that label just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Thoughts?

 

The taste in you mouth is not a measure of something. Abortion is as good as getting a tooth pulled. It is a medical procedure

 

Her question, which was too INCONVENIENT for you to actually answer was : What is a "valid reason?"

Answering, "every case is different" is NOT an answer to "what is a "valid reason"?


Now, as to your statement:"good compromise would be for a woman to have the baby even if she doesn't want it, then have it adopted or put in an orphanage, is that a good idea?""


Here's some more INCONVENIENT questions for you not to answer because you don't seem to like INCONVENIENCE :

W H Y should a woman have to compromise?

She doesn't.

She does not have to go through 9 months of pregnancy to please you, why would you think she should? (ANOTHER INCONVENIENT question)

Why would she want to damage her body, risk death and pother permanent damage like infertility, suffer pain, get huge financial debts, suffer career/educational setbacks, face time off work and possible job loss just to give a kid to someone else?...and make YOU feel good?

How STUPID.





Your lack of concern for the unwanted child, just toss it in an orphanage and hope someone might want it, is typical of Anti-Choicers who just don't worry about "life" AFTER it's born.

 

Try putting "choice" in your mouth, try "women have a right to their own bodies", try Freedom ,

try "not letting one mistake or accident define the rest of your life"........those have a very good taste....the OP is just trolling ...

 

Those girls are out there right now! There's lots of them....have you notified the local social services that you have a FREE spare room for pregnant teens?
A room where you will protect her from rampaging boyfriends/fathers/pimps, feed and clothe her for free, pay her medical expenses, phone service ?

Have you?