Why do you people keep asking the same wrong question?

By "you people" I mean those Americans who profess to be utterly mystified as to why anyone would object to the societal countenancing of "gay marriage", lacking any reason to believe it will affect "you personally". Do you really not understand that with marriage comes the presumption of the competence to rear children? Does it really never enter your head that children reared under such "marriages" are being short-changed at best? Do you really find it uninteresting that the Preamble to our Constitution says it was established and ordained "for ourselves and our Posterity"? And do you really not understand what your question says about the limits of your own perception?

Really?

 

I think they are even more short-changed by parental divorce, or by single parents, or by having stupid parents, or a whole multitude of things that are already legal. Why don't you start with those?

Why do you get to decide who is and who is not competent enough to have children?

 

Because most of us recognize that children raised by homosexuals are NOT short changed in any way. It's a shame people such as yourself would generalize an entire group of people and then try to use children in such a despicable manner.

Are you saying ALL children raised by gay people cannot be productive, happy members of society?

 

some gay parents suck, some don't. It's too bad the most visible of us are the Oscar Wilde-esque man children obsessed with vanity and being oversensitive, it really does us no favors in the "looking like a responsible parent" area.

 

You have no idea of the elements of the family structure which contribute to healthy individuals, families and a society.

There have not been sufficient studies over several generations to determine what harm is or isn't being done to our culture by Gay parenting.

Just because a Gay couple is stable, loving and nurturing isn't the entirety of the recipe.

And we KNOW that traditional families which ON THE FACE OF THINGS seem healthy but their dysfunction stems from things we haven't yet nailed down.

How can one generation of Gay parenting give us all the answers we need before passing judgment?

The family is the FOUNDATION of our society.

And you guys just seem to believe you can meddle with hundreds of thousands of years of established tradition and after only a few short decades know for certain that Gay parenting WON'T screw up America beyond your ability to fix.

The whole argument can be summed up by Irving Kristol in talking about the LBJ Great Society changes which he and Progressive America inflicted upon America which you bright boys and girls STILL haven't YET fixed and which STILL plague us.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/war/power_of_nightmares_transcript_1.shtml

Now you want to add to your self destructive track record.

YOU may not be able to see or care about the crap you have done to make America WORSE, but Conservatives are not crippled by such mental birth disorders as your congenital Liberalism.

We are the ONLY things keeping you guys from completely screwing us ALL to hell.

I'm not against the idea of Gay parenting as such.

I'm against ANYTHING that makes life worse for ALL Americans.

Homosexuals need to just consider themselves as people born with a condition, (homosexuality) which prohibits certain activities.

A person born without perfect color vision can't fly planes for the military.

Tough luck.

Homosexuals can't raise children.

Tough luck.

The welfare of the many supersedes the needs of the few.

Gay parenting?

Talk to me in the year 3000 and if it still seems to be without harm, okay.

Go for it.

Until then, not on your life!

 

Insufficient data with which to make a learned judgment.

More studies are needed.

If you guys weren't stymied by Mother Nature, I'm sure you'd be here advocating a 3 month pregnancy on the basis that you were able to do it a few times and the children didn't immediately die.

Yeah, let's open up the mother and artificially raise the baby until it is SEEMINGLY viable.

Then in 50 years or so we'd discover that a three month pregnancy was absolutely wrong.

But you'd make this discovery AFTER some of you impulsive Liberals had lobbied and whined and wailed in FAVOR of it...only to find out your rush to do something NEW AND EXCITING was absolutely against the laws of nature...laws we don't even yet recognize exist.

You may be screwing up mankind and don't seem to care or realize the harm you might unleash.

This is Liberalism at work and this is why Liberalism can only be acceptable in measured doses.

 

Why are you OK with pouring gasoline on the fire?

Where did I claim such authority? And what authority do figure I need to state the obvious?

 

Sorry I prefer reality, unlike you gay haters. When you can show ABSOULUTE harm, let me know.

Wow, did you get some good exercise with that dumb strawman you just tried to lay out?

You'll have to show me how the HETEROSEXUAL children of the gay couple I see weekly that raised them, are harmed. Especially when both children have good degrees, married to opposite sex partners, and expecting children are "screwed up".

Don't waste your time, we know you can't.

 

The only example of pouring gas on a fire is ignorant comments from people like you.

Good, worry about yourself and YOUR family. Don't like gay marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. Other than that, deal with it. You're going to have to learn how to REAL soon.

 

You state this as obvious:


Does it really never enter your head that children reared under such "marriages" are being short-changed at best?


But then you don't support it in any way. In what way are such children being short-changed merely by being the children of same-sex parents?

Surely children raised in a loving, stable, supportive family with two parents of the same sex are better off than children raised in many other situations: being raised by single parents, being raised in abusive, dysfunctional two-parent families, or desperately poor families, or households where one parent is a substance abuser or mentally ill, etc.

Thus, if children are your focus, then clearly the primary measure of success involves something other than the gender of the parents.

Even ignoring all that, there's this: There is no "competence" test for getting married. Heck, there's not even a "promise to have children" test. So it seems an obvious double standard to use children as the basis for excluding same-sex marriages.

 

To be fair, straight kids coming into adulthood are coming out in opposition to gay parenting. I think if anyone has authority on this, it'd be kids who lived it.

And to Arxael, saying straights are gay haters because they say things you don't like is rather bigoted, wouldn't you say? I don't see him saying or implying that he hates gays, do you? Now let's stop resorting to ad hominem identity politics to avoid evidence-based debate, hm?

 

Plenty of kids raised by straight parents have issues with the way they were raised. Why would you expect this to be different for kids raised by gay parents?

So now we have TWO double standards. The OP who thinks "children" should be a factor in gay marriages, even though it isn't a factor for straight marriages; and you, who think we should pay attention when children raised by gays complain about their parents, but it's irrelevant when children raised by straights complain.

 

Why exactly would a reasonable person believe that?

And I shouldn't have to, because it's obvious to the commonsensically inclined

Because they're being deprived of either a mother or a father, and that by the design of the "parents".

There isn't any such thing.

No it isn't. There is no way to accurately assess these things except case by case; yet it is clear that traditional marriage is better than any other environment for child rearing, and the only arrangement that ought to be sanctioned by society.

Were it possible to devise such a test, the results of which were perfectly accurate, while most hetero couples might fail it, homosexual couples would fail it every time.

 

To be fair, mainstream gay culture has a nasty habit of making a person's entire persona about gay rights. The kids complaining were raised by these types, and said their parents were more worried about themselves and gay politics than their kids. Straights don't often have this problem, it's rather specific to us. I mean, yeah, I'm grateful for the rights and all, but I'm not sure a lot of those types are good parenting material if they adopt just for the sake of being a gay parent, like I see a lot doing. I'm not saying there shouldn't be gay parents, I'm just saying we as a culture need to sort ourselves out and make sure people have kids for the right reason. A child is not a political pawn to further gay rights.

- - - Updated - - -

I've seen decent gay parents, some better than straight.

 

it is really simple...much of what you say is irrelevant, if they dont have kids oh well. really all you have to do is leave them alone.

 

LOL. For yguy, there is no such thing as "loving, stable, supportive gay parents."

Enough said.

 

I was raised during my formative years in one of your "short changed" family situations. Frankly I thank God that I was because the alternative is horrible to imagine. The author of this thread has no idea of what he or she is talking about.

I do not believe that two people of the same sex can be joined in the eyes of God.

But there is no reason that the benefits of marriage granted by the state should not be allowed to any two consenting adults. Less government is a good thing and excluding homosexuals from those benefits does not promote or protect our liberties in any way.

 

You need to get your priorities straight.

There are far more people with the wrong skin color or the wrong religious beliefs raising children than there are people with the wrong sexual preferences.

 

Not to mention lots of ugly and stupid people. I mean, what kind of parent would bring ugly and stupid children into the world?

 

If nature intended for same sex human couples to bear children, why then are they incapable?
In a purely physical sense, bearing (and thus raising) children seems to be meant for a man and a woman....at least that what nature dictates.
Even though there have been many children born to both but raised by others.

On the other hand, man was not, in a purely physical sense, meant to fly.
Yet, man has overcome the barriers to that and humans flying is commonplace.
The point being simply that just because nature didn't dictate it doesn't mean humans can't safely and successfully.

By natures hand, most humans have been and probably will continue to be born heterosexual.
I doubt there's much anyone can do to change that.

However, should a large number of gay couples who adopt children or have them through other means raise children
against the child's inner preferences, I could see a lot of harm to those children psychologically. This has in fact been the case with many
homosexual children over much of human history. Thus the term "coming out". Hopefully gay parents
will not be so selfish as to do this to children who present heterosexual tendencies early on.

If they truly are "loving" parents they will nurture the child according to the child's personality and not their own in this respect, as I see it.

 

Non-responsive. Even granting the dubious premise that you're in a position to assess the parenting of people you don't live with, an alcoholic might be a better parent than a child molester, but that doesn't mean he doesn't suck as a parent anyway.

So you were reared by same sex parents and you find it horrible to imagine growing up with a father and a mother?

I don't suppose it has occurred to you that maybe He set it up as a man/woman union inconsideration of the effects it would have on the offspring.

If, as you affirm, God does not smile on the union of two men or two women in marriage, obviously that's plenty good reason right there; and anyone who thinks a better reason is needed sure as Hell has no business calling himself or herself a Christian.

No doubt it appears that way to people who haven't got a clue as to what liberty is in the first place.

Americans should understand what the Founders understood: that the laws of Nature have an Author who knew exactly what He was doing when He wrote those laws.

While that's an obvious danger, it's not the entirety of the danger by any means.

 

still waters run deep. the noise made by some about the noise made by others is mostly foam.

 

Well, thank you for admitting that you are drawing conclusions with a complete lack of evidence. Your input is always appreciated.

 

You assume that that's what's happening here. You need proof.

You said that marriage comes with a "presumption of competency" to rear children, and then went on to say that the children reared under these marriages are being short-changed. You are essentially stating that gay people are incompetent when it comes to raising children. And, in any case, marriage has never been based on a definition of competency.

 

No I don't.

Speak for yourself, if you don't mind. I don't need any proof, because I know it's true.

You betcher sweet bippy I am.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but I wonder who you think has the authority to define marriage.