Why I'm against the financially devastating plan known to us as: "Flattening the Curve."

You have no idea and were in total denial until this blew up. In Italy, about the same number of people who have recovered, have died. We have had fewer people recover, than have died. For all we know at this time, Asians might have greater immunity than others. It is speculated that in Italy, the average age of the population is the reason for the high death rate.

 

It's good on you to attack me, when I was reacting to the numbers as they were. And I scaled it up appropriately I thought. But frankly no one knows about this unstable situation and that's why it's so dangerous. It's unstable.

 

The voice of reason telling us that People should be valued over Profits.

What is sad is that there are so many who don't understand this fundamental humanitarian concept.

 

Living while starving isn't exactly a great way to live and that's how we'd live with these executive orders, etc.

 

So you are placing a monetary value on the lives of our fellow Americans?

Hardworking people must die so that the wealthy elite can keep their billions of dollars?

Sad!

 

We're all going to run out of food eventually with more hoarding and if these kind of draconian measures last for a long duration of time. Among other concerns, that's why they call them 'draconian'.

 

If the math in the Tracking thread is accurate we could reach the 70% infection rate by Summer. At that stage the 4 out of 5 people who were only mildly infected can resume their normal lives and the supply chain will be refilled. The economy can and does function with high rates of unemployment.

The positive aspect will be that a shortage of workers will drive up wages and salaries just as it did following the Black Death plague in the Middle Ages.

The negatives are obviously the mortality rate and the potential of reinfections and/or mutations. The 1918 Influenza Pandemic did occur in multiple waves with mutations and so that cannot be discounted.

Flattening the curve and Social Distancing are essentially the only tools currently at our disposal. If we are lucky we will have a vaccine and/or cure sooner rather that later.

No matter what actually happens the economy will survive and ultimately return just as it has always done in the past after events of this nature. The only danger to the economy is if there are too many casualties then it will just take longer to return. The best thing for the economy is to keep as many people alive as possible because that means that it will return to normal sooner rather than later.

So the OP's priority of placing the economy above the welfare of We the People would actually have the opposite effect and hurt the economy more than help it.

 

yep, wages go up, inflation will also happen, what that means is most people will be just as good off, maybe better

the debt will be easier to pay off as well as people debt, mortgages, ect....

 

The inflation aspect is another double edged weapon.

While it has positive aspects like reducing debt burdens it has negative impacts on retirees living on fixed incomes.

The Fed will raise interest rates to curb inflation which will have the negative impact of increasing the interest on the National Debt.

Finding the balance will be exceptionally difficult IMO.

 

the Trump economy was ready for a crash with or without Corona, Corona was just the straw that broke the camels back

if the trump economy was doing so great, the fed would not of been dumping billions into the economy.... the interest rates would have been raised back up

because the interest rates were so low, we may not be able to recover from the recession as we do not have that tool now, and very well could have a Trump depression - all cause trump wanted to pump that sock bubble for all it was worth

 

yep, agree, but I do not think they will be raising interest rates anytime soon, they may even go negative

 

The main prooblem with AN pov, to me, is that he value the system more than the people. He strongly believe, again to me, that the USA system is the ultimate one and that people only exist to keep that system alive.

As I already explained to him, the system is there to serve the people, not the other way around. If said system become a burden and people has to be sacrificed to keep the system alive, then it's time to find a new system.

 

The system did not become a burden and frankly as I also said to you: There is no system(or a ship is a better metaphor) without its captain. And that captain is the people. This forced isolation cannot be sustained for months. The trillions of lost dollars will destroy the US Economy(and the economy of other leading powers that are following suit). The inflationary injections will make it worse.

The worst case scenario is a bunch of 1928 Germany's all over the place. We're entering into uncharted financial territories due to uncharted, terrible decisions that you normally would NEVER make.

So yes, the system is worth preserving because it preserves all of us. It's not a burden. We're burdening ourselves and our system.

 

...Or will see the emergence of a new system better suited for these days and age. Maybe one where no one as to kill himself slowly doing the work for some other lazy arse collecting dividents sitting at home. You work, you get paid. You don't get to play the odds with somebody else livelihood.

 

Our system is not the GDP, or the national debt, or any other measurement of wealth.

You say this is about we the people, but then you propose sacrificing the PEOPLE!

Beyond that, the "captain" in our system IS the president. That is who we chose through our admittedly pathetic method of chosing leadership - and regardless of how crappy the president happens to be.

 

We are all the captains of our own individual lives.(That's what self autonomy is, and if you haven't noticed I'm a big proponent of self autonomy) and I believe the system of the society requires all of those captains to be performing at top peak in order for our society to flow.

I don't propose "sacrificing" the people. I'm being rather blunt: So long as we don't have immunity, all of us are at risk. So we're going to have to, in one way or another take a hit for the team to develop herd immunity so that this doesn't affect us down the road.

You could say that those who have been affected are taking that hit for the team right now. As the number of recoveries and fatalities start to accumulate, so too does the number of possible hosts. Hopefully, we do get a vaccine or treatment as soon as possible or that mother nature spares us somehow, so we don't have to spend the next 18 months in a doghouse. And that the casualties can be at their lowest possible level.

 

You are flipping on your idea of "captain". Our captain is Trump. There is NO question about that.

What you are talking about is our individual willingess to take advice. It's true that we can igore the captain. We can also ignore science - which, unfortunately, is two differet issues at present.

And, you are still ignoring experts and leaders who are stating that we need to keep from overwhelming our hospitals.

Having YOU get sick is not going to help ME. And, that is a rule that applies to us all.

 

It still doesn't change the fact that we need to acquire immunity or this will never end. Think about that: It will never end. We will be indoors, so long as we fear or suspect the coronavirus to be out there in the windstream. That's what scares me more than the virus.

It's not really so much about 'advice' as it is, what it means to be human. You know as well as I do what being human meant before Coronavirus. The idea of our living is to hunker up forever, to have no means of feeding for ourselves or earning money and to have these fiat injections into the economy is inherently destructive.

That it's destructive, is not in question. So the better question to ask: Is the risk of coronavirus in proportion to this new draconian way of life? This isn't even about Trump anymore, forget him.

It's about what it means to be human. That's what I fear we're losing from all of this.

 

The first issue is that we can't afford to incapacitate our healthcare facilities. EVERY expert points this out.

By doing that, we also allow time for finding or developing treatments.

I really don't get the rest of your post. It hits me as a deep disregard for human life.

 

If I had a so-called disregard for human life, don't you think that would have been apparent before Coronavirus? Or, if I had a disregard for human life, wouldn't I be celebrating these draconian measures and the consequences they're having on our planet?

 

You chose economic growth over and above human life before COVID.

Your attitude toward human life has always been "sucks for them" if some group is suffering or dying because they can't get medical care, food or housing.

And, you've promoted ignoring measures that will clearly save lives, so you need to think about your last sentence there.

 

If the issue had been our economy, we would not have allowed a trillion dollar deficit, super low interest rates, huge cuts for businesses and the wealthy, etc. over the last few years.

By doing that, our governmnent gave up it's ability to add real stimulus in time of duress.

Plus, that behavior wasn't even effective in accomplishing what was proposed as justification!!

 

There are now more than 21,000 cases that have been confirmed in the United States. That is to be expected. As the U.S. tests more, it is logical to expect more cases. It is illogical to assume the increasing number is all due to increasing number of cases.

Put a different way, there are 21,000 cases of the common cold caused by a new virus. That is not at all unusual.

In a nation of 327 million, there have been 288 deaths caused by complications of the common cold from the coronavirus in three months, most are the elderly with underlying conditions and in nursing homes or other facilities

Again, that number is not at all unusual. In fact, it is quite low.