Why is Mitch McConnell refusing to subpoena any documents and witnesses?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    I know it's all crap and a waste of time that will go nowhere, same as the Dem's Russian collusion delusions.

    If there was anything to the accusations, the Dems had every opportunity to prove it, and yet they basically didn't even try, because they had no faith in their ability to do so.

    The Dems don't trust their own case, and neither do I, and that's why I don't care.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  2. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Oh bullshit too, Had they waited you would have claimed they were "dragging their feet" and be demanding a speedy trial. Let them call the witnesses now, YOU were the reason for the waiting.
     
  3. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Donor

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    On its face, the thread is asinine. A third grader could answer the question, "Why doesn't Bobby show us what's in his hand?" Any third graders here that can't answer that one?
     
  4. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    I didn't demand a speedy trial for the Dem's Russian collusion delusions. I had no problem with the Dem's beating that dead horse for THREE YEARS until they tired themselves out and finally gave up. No problem at all.

    I would've taken the exact same attitude if the Dems wanted to drag out their sham impeachment for years. It's fine by me if the Dems want to waste their time chasing their tails. Better Dem time be wasted on snipe hunts than put towards doing their actual jobs and pushing their crap progressive lunatic policies
     
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  5. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    So here's a chance for the senate to correct the House's mistake. Good enough for me.
     
  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    What delusions?

    Guide to the Mueller Report’s Findings on “Collusion”

    https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guide-to-the-mueller-reports-findings-on-collusion/

    Although the Mueller Report does not squarely address these questions of “collusion” that fall outside the scope of potential criminal liability, it can be mined for substantive information that provides some meaningful answers.

    What follows is a detailed guide to the Mueller Report’s evidence on collusion. The analysis discusses affirmative evidence and countervailing evidence in the Report, references the Special Counsel’s court filings and reliable news reports that help shed additional light on information in the Report, and identifies significant loose ends that the investigation was unable to answer.

    Stop Using the Word “Collusion”—How to Frame the Critical Question at the Heart of Trump-Russia
    https://www.justsecurity.org/62675/...w-frame-critical-question-heart-trump-russia/
     
  7. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Why? Because he's guilty, right?

    Every defendant who refuses to voluntarily get up on the stand and testify in their own defense is guilty, right?
     
  8. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    tenor.gif

    Yep, there's chance.
     
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  9. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

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    The upper-house may vote to try to correct the lower-house's clumsy mistakes, if they are extraordinarily generous.
     
  10. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    Why do you characterize the pursuit of the truth as being "extraordinarily generous?" Trump stonewalled the House inquiry. The Senate has the opportunity to get info that was prevented from being added to the record. IT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING.
     
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  11. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    The House had the opportunity to get that info too. They chose not to try.

    Why SHOULD the Senate BE DOING what the House failed to do?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  12. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    This right here is asinine.

    You know what's in Bobby's hand? Nunya.

    Nunya business.

    You want to know what's in Bobby's hand? Go get a warrant, ya busybodies. Bobby ain't gotta show you nothin'.

    You may live in a world of third graders, but that's how it works in the adult world.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  13. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Democrats wanted Trump impeached as quickly as possible, fairly or unfairly, for any reason - real or invented. They accomplished that.
    Republicans want Trump exonerated as quickly as possible, fairly or unfairly.

    This sham started out completely partisan and unfair. The Senate will be extremely generous if they allow it to continue one minute longer than it has to. Not summarily dismissing it from the start is already an act of kindness.

    Repeat: Americans made up their minds shortly after Trump released the call transcript. Whatever happens next is just for show. The Senate is about to finish the show. I guarantee, "witnesses and documents" or not, you won't be happy with the ending. Your "win" is that "Trump is impeached forever." The Republican "win" will be that "Trump is acquitted forever." Now each side gets a trophy. Everyone happy? No, of course not. Because partisan impeachments are 100% predictable and they harm the country.

    What they should be doing is working for the American people by legislating, not investigating.
     
  14. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    They did.

    1. Trump empowered Giuliani to employ the help of various members of the US diplomatic contingent to Ukraine, and some who were not part of that contingent, to put pressure on Ukraine to announce an investigation in to Joe Biden. A campaign that began in the spring of 2019. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50492438
    2. Leverage was used, at Trump's direction, as a means to get Ukraine to acquiesce to Trump's requests in the form of the withholding of military aid authorized by Congress.
    "Clear direction from POTUS to continue hold."
    https://www.justsecurity.org/67863/...ts-reveal-extent-of-pentagons-legal-concerns/
    3. Resulting from the WB complaint, a summary of the transcript of the Zelensky call was released revealing Trump speaking to Zelensky about the investigations he wanted Ukraine to announce. A transcript WH officials tried to hide from other members of the government and the public by placing it in a code level secret server typically used for keeping national security matters secret. https://apnews.com/817c0c285bc9485d88608635e0fef3e3
    4. Trump and Sondland were overheard discussing the efforts to get Ukraine to announce an investigation in to Biden.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/21/imp...ow-he-overheard-trump-call-with-sondland.html
    5. Officials in the admin and the Pentagon expressed concern the hold was illegal.
    https://publicintegrity.org/nationa...rried-ukraine-aid-halt-violated-spending-law/
    A GAO analysis of the laws pertaining to the hold found it was, in their opinion, illegal.
    6. Ukrainian officials asked about the aid on the day Trump called Zelensky when he said, "I need you to do us a favor though," prior to asking Ukraine to investigate Biden (and the server).
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/20/ukr...ump-zelenskiy-call-impeachment-testimony.html
    7. Part time, acting Chief-of-Staff Mick Mulvaney publicly acknowledged the quid pro quo.
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/17/poli...d-pro-quo-donald-trump-ukraine-aid/index.html
    So did EU ambassador Sondland.
    Sondland acknowledges Ukraine quid pro quo, implicates Trump, Pence, Pompeo and others
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...741e3c-0b92-11ea-8397-a955cd542d00_story.html
    8. US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch was relieved of her post by Trump as a result of a smear campaign launched against her by Giuliani because she posed on obstacle to carrying out the scheme to extort Ukraine. https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/15/trump-yovanovitch-impeachment-070988
    Lev Parnas recently stated her removal was directed as a payoff to get a Ukrainian official to produce dirt on Biden. https://slate.com/news-and-politics...risma-biden-dirt-fire-ukraine-ambassador.html
    9. All of the 17 witnesses who testified during the House inquiry corroborate 1-8.
    10. If any of the witnesses or documentary evidence Trump has blocked as part of his obstruction of the investigation can offer a refutation of the evidence above it is his prerogative to present it.
    11. The solicitation of help in a US election from a foreign person or government is illegal.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...s-illegality-of-soliciting-campaign-help-from
     
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  15. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    I seem to recall the same sorts of damning laundry lists of Trump's nefarious crimes when the Dem's were trying to sell their Russian collusion delusions. Remember Schifty's "Lots of evidence in plain sight" hogwash?

    Lists and lists of "impeachable crimes", yet not a single statutory crime listed anywhere in the articles of impeachment.

    More of the same Democrap crap.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  16. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    No, but every defendant who even tries to prevent witnesses against him from testifying sure looks that way, as well as would be sent to prison for a long time just for that in normal circumstances. There is more evidence here than just witnesses

    Right, don't investigate, don't oversee, don't check the runaway rogue dictator wannabe as he undermines institutions that have protected our freedom for going on 250 years, just stand back and watch as our country is stolen from us before our eyes.
     
  17. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Is "looking guilty" a crime now? An impeachable offense?

    Should Obama have been sent to prison when he actively defied court orders to hand over the Fast and Furious document for several years? Should he have been impeached for obstruction of Congress? Was that not normal circumstances?

     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  18. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why should he? It's Congress's job to prove the case against Trump. It's the Senate's job to look at the evidence and decide if there is enough evidence there to impeach him. Mc Connell doesn't know what other witnesses or documents would say and you don't call them unless you know what they will say. Any half way decent lawyer knows that. Why should McConnell give the democrats anything when he knows they would try and use it against Trump. Why should the Democrats ask for them now when they had a chance to it before, but was in to much of a hurry to wait? Why help the people who said they have been waiting two and a half years to impeach him? If they don't impeach him, he'll win again. That should tell you a lot. I would give the Democrats nothing.
     
  19. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    People who obstruct the investigation into crimes that it looks like they have committed can be charged with a crime itself. Executive privilege was clearly never meant to shield the President from the consequences of his own wrongdoing.

    I've already admitted that I won't be voting for Obama for President anymore.
     
  20. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    What wrongdoing exactly? Everyone keeps saying that the President tried to get a foreign government to interfere in our elections....yet not one bit of evidence has shown this. It's been an assumption right from the beginning. Did he withhold aid? Yep. He did something every President has done at one point in their tenure. Most often multiple times. Did he ask for an investigation into Burisma and Biden? Yep. Why did he do this? Well...that is where every Democrat and Trump hater has made an assumption right from the beginning. Not one bit of evidence has shown why he did what he did. No one has proven that Trump is lying when he says it only had to do with looking into corruption.

    So when you say "completely inappropriate in this case where it is obviously and blatantly being used to allow the President to get away with wrongdoing" all that you're doing is making an assumption. Could those documents/testimonies possibly exonerate Trump or prove him guilty? We don't know. But I do know that it is not Trumps job to prove the prosecutors case one way or another. The accused do not have to prove their innocence.
     
  21. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Trump never tried to cheat in any election so why are you saying "again"? Mueller proved the Russian collaboration claim false.
     
  22. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I take that to mean you agree with McConnell just rubber-stamping a not guilty veredict for the Criminal in Chief.

    In answer to your question: because he took an oath of office. And because now he took a second oath for the Impeachment trial.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  23. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Uh because he would get the same executive privilege answer Schiff for Brains got. Too bad the Biden's can't do the same.
     
  24. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not the Senate's job to prove Congress's case. It's their job to see the evidence brought by Congress and see if they have enough evidence to impeach. They said earlier they had over whelming evidence. So let's get on with what they have.
     
  25. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Schiff did not get an executive privilege answer. Trump defense just admitted it.
     

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