Why is there so much hate, and why is the country (US) so divided?

There's always been two spectrum's at odds with each other, but Trump has been fanning the flames of hatred and division more than any president in History. Things really started going downhill with Gingrich as speaker of the house back in the 90s. I remember the 60s, the riots after MLK was shot, I remember everything, Weather Underground bombings, The wackos on the left are less wacko now, and the wackos on the right are more wacko, that's what I've noticed.

 

I ignored your $10 billion bill BECAUSE it is not backed by the nation's total output due to the development of the nation's available resources and productive capacity, BY the nation's farmers, engineers, teachers, machinists, scientists etc etc.

Now do you understand?

Addressed above.

Again: the particular fiat currency issued by the particular nation's sovereign currency-issuing government, with it's own treasury and central bank, backed by the productive capacity of the nation's farmers, engineers, teachers, machinists, scientists etc etc. is the source of the fiat currency's value.

Now do you understand?

[Zimbabwe expelled its experienced white farmers, replacing them with inexperienced black farmers, for reasons of historical injustice (white colonization). Hence food production capacity collapsed].

 

So your solution is that every citizen in the nation must be on board. That's like having an illusion that only works if everybody agrees, and fools themselves. Total suspension of disbelief.
In such a situation, we could use beans for currency, just put a colored dot on them to say they were government beans. Change denomination by color of the dot.
They would of course be worth nothing unless every single person agreed to pretend they were- and that would be a mass delusion, not a functional economic system that could endure.
By comparison, the ludicrously bloated Zimbabwe currency is far more legitimate.

You will NEVER get all the people of any nation to back any single plan to do anything- let alone pretend that your beans have any value they could depend on.
That is human nature,

<Rule 2>

The real barriers to our advancement and success is the endless flow of brilliant ideas to save the world by means of their magic formulas, ignoring the realities while promising miracles.
Life is difficult and confusing enough without people peddling miracle elixir cures like the old-time traveling medicine shows.

 

Yes.

Nonsense. It's a requirement of community, and a right and responsibility.
UNUDHR: article 23:

• 1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
• (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
• (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other ...

That's all that 'paper money is....(if private banks issued similar beans to the "government beans").

And lo and behold, all citizens of nations with sovereign currency-issuing governments
DO agree the currency has exchange-able value......no pretence required, because citizens observe they can pay their taxes and purchase goods and service produced by the nation.

On the contrary the fiat currency is on very solid ground (unlike your quantity theory of money), provided TOTAL spending (private and public) doesn't exceed the available resources and the nation's productive capacity.

I already explained the reason for the partial loss of Zimbabwe's productive capacity, leading to hyperinflation

The requirement to pay taxes is not a matter of agreement; and you will certainly need the nation's currency to pay taxes.

True......but there's nothing magical about fiat currency.

Meanwhile, if this pandemic results in "un-repayable government debt", what will you do?

Behave like Bolsosano, who said (a fortnight ago) Brazil's government has "run out of money" ....so just take your chances and go back to work?

 

I don't think it is that divided, I think it's largely on the surface but I think the major thing is an incredible lack of empathy from both sides. I think the way to end this is for the right to begin to take a more aggressive stance with the media and encourage a more centred viewpoint.

 

As opposed to the "passive stance" that they had during the Trump Administration?

 

It wasn't enough, left wing opinion in the media is just overwhelming.

 

And how are you going to enforce this edict? (Everyone must be on board)

1. Everyone has the right to work now. NOT a guarantee of a job they like, just the right to sell their services to the highest bidder. IF they have anything of value, they can do that.
If they have nothing of value, then the first thing they must do is find that within themselves. Everyone has it.

2. We already have laws that regulate equal work/equal pay, some legal, some social in nature.

3. Now you encounter a problem- that of declaring that anyone has a right to a comfortable life, regardless of their value (you assume being alive and on a payroll list is enough), and that others
must take up the slack for the slackers.

These schemes are always predatory; forcing those who will to carry those who won't.
That's like fertilizing the weeds in your garden, while refusing to water the crops. What could go wrong?

The world is like a big natural garden. Everybody can participate.
But when you don't plant a crop and tend it, you will not be harvesting.
The idea you can steal from those that did isn't justice- it's theft.

Since I am my own employer and have virtually none of the advantages of working for someone else- My position carries far less entitlement and far more risk than the people whose lives I should
improve. Maybe you didn't know that, but I'd be happy to explain it in detail. Come back with another plan, where similar rights and guarantees apply to me, and we will talk again about what's "fair".

So long as you have the right to sell your services, to raise your own crop- your destiny is in your own hands.
Stop whining and take care of it, and your problems are solved without the need to steal from others.

 

Trump hasn't done anything but get elected and try to do the things he said he would that got him elected. The hatred and division has come from the Speaker of The House in her efforts to undermine this Presidency. Why? Because his policies reversed progress that had been made toward globalism and a new world order. We had a manufactured Russian crisis, an impeachment because she could, and it kept the disruption front and center and created hurdles new policy changes would have to get over. Obstruction is one thing but the hatred advocated by the Speaker and echoed by the media is what we are dealing with today, tomorrow and maybe from now on and it's real. Ollie, ollie oxen free isn't going to work.

 

I've cracked it; listening to Biden's call for unity today, I realized something that even he doesn't realize, namely, unity is a socialist principle.

But the country follows classical economics, which postulates scarcity in the face of unlimited wants. That's why the Dems are doomed to fail.

 

I explained that in relation to tax obligations owing to the state; ie, it's the law (and one of the pillars supporting the value of fiat currency).

I disagree, that statement is just you following classical economics, which postulates "scarcity in the face of unlimited wants".

The Marxist principle of "from each according to ability" has now arrived in the world, because there is no longer scarcity when, eg, robots can produce more vehicles than the world can possibly consume.

Your error here is explained above; all contribution by ability has value.

Robots have replaced slackers AND slaves

No, classical economics is predatory, forcing people into low wage slavery, or unemployment itself, to control inflation (to achieve the NAIRU).

Another restatement of classical economic theory.

Good for you; I'm interested in everyone's employment possibilities, not marred by below poverty wages.

Full employment, with the government acting as ELR IS fair, and YOU get to keep all you earn.

Re "whining": I will repeat my observation in my previous post:

"I've cracked it; listening to Biden's call for unity today, I realized something that even he doesn't realize, namely, unity is a socialist principle.

But the country follows obsolete classical economics, which postulates scarcity in the face of unlimited wants. as well as classical liberalism which postulates individual sovereignty above community cohesion. That's why the Dems are doomed to fail".

 

Sounds like a catfish with a belly ache from the hook and sinker he swallowed, trying to convince himself it wasn't a mistake....

 

Indicates you have run out of the ability to defend your 'everyman for himself' world view, in the face of current national AND global political and economic realities that have come close to destroying democracy in the US. AND is creating a refugee problem spiralling out of control around the world owing to the collapse of national economies

Note: the US senate shows a 50/50 split: "United we stand, divided we fall".

In any case, your world view of 'everyman for himself' is indefensible, even if Biden doesn't
understand he is invoking a socialist principle when he calls for unity in the US body politic.

 

There's no need to defend what proven and works (not perfectly, nothing ever has) against something that is simply speculation. If clear explanation of my position doesn't get through to you, it you that has a problem- I don't have to prove you wrong, YOU have to prove you are right. Until you can, all you have is a grand idea for a perfect world, that nobody will support.

So far, you haven't a clue as to what I've said, because your every moment is spent trying to figure out how to cancel what was said rather than understand it.
Kind of like applying for a job and saying you are worth $500 an hour, but nobody's buying- maybe there's some flaws in your plan.
Not my problem; it's your problem.

 

Secure above-poverty employment for all is ONE of the pillars of the nation's prosperity,
(as opposed to Trump's astute observation: "You are living in poverty, your neighbourhoods are like war zones....")

Lack of which is a cause of the current hyper-partisanship in the US.

No. eg, in a pandemic, the nation only needs to grow and distribute food; and keep essential utilities operating; the government can certainly pay for that much.

Prosperity implies much more than that; and then the issue is matching TOTAL money (whether government or private-bank-created money) to the nation's total output (see MMT).

It's a powerful human drive to explore**; the astronauts - who love life - nevertheless signed up, and NASA were looking for the bragging rights (1st on the moon etc). But they all LOVE LIFE. (Of course NASA could save a fortune if they attempted to do it on the cheap...costing many more lives).

**So there you have it: humans are risk-takers, in pursuit of fame. glory, and discovery (for which economic development is an enabler).

Murder is a different phenomenon.

YOU insist on absolute national sovereignty, which renders international law ineffective.

Now, whereas a nation can legislate against murder by individuals, it cannot prevent murder, because the offender and victim are in direct contact, and there are only two decision-makers involved.

But international law COULD both delegitimize war AND prevent it from happening, because the military logistics and personnel required to wage war are vast and involve many decision makers.

You either believe in jurisprudence of international law or you don't.

Are the lives of innocent children worth less than your desire for the outmoded concept of absolute national sovereignty?

....which often boils down to paranoid "freedom or death" nonsense....and a desire for national culture to overrule the principles laid out in the UNUDHR...

 

Works for YOU, but not the millions who would agree with the guy who shouted: "we pay their (politicians) wages and they give us nothing"... on the way to the Capitol riot.

You are as out of touch as one of Loius XIV's ministers who advised the king against raising taxes on the wealthy...

Interestingly, while Yellen (the new treasury secretary) hasn't suggested raising taxes on the wealthy, (I think), she has suggested increasing Fed borrowing as required to support the economy and create jobs.

Now how is that going to end? You tell me.....

AOC might actually need to explain to congress how the US government can avoid bankruptcy.....while avoiding a trade-off between the economy and lives lost to the pandemic.

I understand that what you have to say is valuable for individuals.

But it's irrelevant for a macroeconomy facing multiple national and international challenges.

Already addressed in previous posts.

 

You mean people have a responsibility to be paid a certain amount?

In your system, why would anyone choose to work if the government gives them all the money they need?

The simple fact is, that if the government thought that one single life was worth saving, then NASA would never have sent anyone into space. And if YOU thought that one single life was worth saving, then you would say that NASA should never have sent anyone into space. Yet, you cannot say that!

Why should people decide what happens in a country which they have not been elected in?

Is ALL war bad?

 

Listening to Biden now: "we are good people..." ....yes most are, but we are turned against one-another by an obsolete and vicious neoliberal economic orthodoxy that leaves many in poverty in the midst of plenty.

Neither side sees it as a SYSTEMS problem, which it is. . That's the problem.

Though I'm pleased Biden's catholicism (like Jimmy Carter's Christianity) draws on the message of the NT's 'Prince of Peace', rather than Pompeo's OT 'Man (God) of War' (according to the warrior Moses).

 

The responsibility to ensure a universal above-poverty wage lays with government, NOT "people".

(I 'love' the way your libertarian mind works...and the errors it ALWAYS
falls into).

It doesn't.

Now we see a less endearing aspect of your libertarian mind...inability to understand concepts that have already been explained many times: resources and productive capacity limit how much money the government can create spend into the economy.

That's just your confused libertarian brain speaking: see Albert Schweitzer's concept of "reverence for life", which means EVERY LIFE is worth saving, including of course ONE life. But accidents do happen, and sometimes choices have to be made, which does not invalidate Schweitzer's conception (which is an extension of Christ's message, "love God and love one another").

There's your "people" problem, again. Only certain people select the justices of a Supreme Court.

In short, law always has jurisprudence over certain defined spheres of activity: local, state, national ....and (one day) international.

Nations could (one day) send representatives to an ICJ** to deal with international affairs, when war is delegitimized. See "The Parliament.of Man" by Paul Kennedy.

**an ICJ dedicated to the universal principles outlined in the UNUDHR.

I think so, since it results from a failure of international diplomacy, or lack of the required institutional machinery to deal with disputes between nations.

 

I knew you were struggling to keep your bubble intact, but to assume that AOC has the capacity to understand or do anything correctly tells me it's much worse than I thought. AOC is the person who heard something about an antenna and said she didn't know where that country was. There has never been a dimmer bulb in the history of congress; she's a mental black hole.

As I said, this burden you are struggling with is YOUR problem. I've tried to help you out, but you're not interested in anything except your own fantasy- and I'm tired of the psycho-babble it keeps producing.
I'm done with it, go sell it to Zimbabwe or people at that level.

 

Another conservative brain bites the dust.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Biden today has announced he will fund food and rent for everyone who, through no fault of their own, have found themselves lining up at food banks or at the point of eviction.......while the nation is looking at half a million lives lost by next month - lives which could have been saved via a suspension of the free market.

Comical claims by mainstream economists that the facts have changed – Bill Mitchell – Modern Monetary Theory (economicoutlook.net)

(the above is a link)

"The Financial Times editorial last week (January 14, 2021) – A fiscal policy for all seasons – held the publication out as a new messenger of fiscal dominance, claiming that “fiscal orthodoxy has changed”.

How do we know that?

Well the editors write:

Organisations such as the IMF and the OECD have told governments that, with low interest rates seemingly here to stay, the costs of excessive borrowing are much lower for advanced economies than previously thought.

Previously thought by them but not any economist who actually understood what the capacities of the fiat monetary system actually are".

In other words, an expected half a million lives lost in the US could have been saved.

 

Put the blame squarely on the lap of the person most responsible for the hate. That would be the nasty evil hate filled old hag Pelosi. Get rid of her, and the hate would drop a great deal.

 

In answer to a student who questioned the Dems acceptance of neoliberal free market capitalism, Persoli replied "we are all capitalists here".

How can she be regarded as responsible for the hate-filled, hyper-partisan US electorate in which the economic orthodoxy results in entrenched poverty amidst plenty? That is a SYSTEMS problem.

 

What about public transport?

 

Much of the existing fleet could be idled (like the world's airlines) with many people working from home.