Why so many Americans believe there was an election fraud?

Conservatism in the US has been, for the most part, characterized by a knee jerk support for the institutions of the ruling political establishment - especially its police, courts and the military.
They are slowly discovering the error of their ways.

 

And I agree- but that hasn't impaired the left for a moment. If they supported that, rioters would have been stopped cold and prosectued, not labeled "peaceful protestors" with the police being ordered to stand down.
The people who fabricated the infamous dossier would be in prison.

Accepting the rule of law only works when all of us agree to do so. When a significant portion of a society decides to ignore it for political benefit, and their own supporters refuse to call them out for it, law has been lost- and the anarchy of Seattle and Portland and Minneapolis and dozens of other places rules.

We have the most important political crisis on our hands that any living person has known.
The single most relevant force behind this is the disruption of the fundamental principles the nation was founded on, and that is being fomented by liberalism and socialism, using the desperation of the democratic party as a vehicle.

The primary weapon is propaganda- something that used to have no place here. People get their perceptions and the basis of what they believe from our news, and our educational systems. When those things are politicized and corrupted, they can disrupt everything, turn people into idiots and sheep- and they are doiung exactly that right now.

This is the result of the technological changes. In 1950's for example- all news networks were broadcast of federally controlled radio frequencies and there were strong regulations. Now they are broadcast by satellite and broadband internet- with virtually no regulations. They are free to put our anything they wish- or that is profitable. Newspapers have abandoned the journalistic ethics too- as most are now owned by big tech companies, and have an agenda that has little to do with reporting unbiased facts anymore. Why do big tech people want to control politics? Same reason that large corporations have always had, but with a lot less character. For every large corporation, there are hundreds of thousands of individual voters. People invariably want to vote themselves benefits that somebody else will pay for, and invariably there are more voters at the bottom of an economic system than at the top. So- large corporations have had to buy influence to limit that weakness. Now, tech giants are both buying influence, and using it along with their control of information to convince you to not only leave them alone, but to actually increase their power over you.

Propaganda is the tool that has held the people of North Korea in total control of a dynasty of dictators for 75 years. It works- and the only thing that can combat that is a free and unbiased media, and honest, realistic educational systems.

Thus- if we want to see truth and justice restored, we might consider a new law, one regarding propaganda. It should apply to any organization that serves as a news source or news exchange, which would include social media and forums. Publication of propaganda- clearly and carefully defined so as not to infringe on free speech- would become criminal, as would political censorship, and severely punished. The same thing would apply to schools- the process of education could not become a vehicle for social ideology, and must be limited to material education, not psychological manipulation.

Are you ready to support that? Wise enough to support that?

 

I am not a law expert, but you sound like you know even less than me about law procedure. Most of Trump complains were not about fraud but about irregular procedures in voting or vote counting - all complains were rejected. As I said, I am not a law expert, so I cannot say if a judge was wrong or right, if you know better, please enlighten us. Some of the judges were appointed by Trump.
I don't remember reading about an EVIDENCE OF FRAUD shown in court by Trump lawyers - it you know, please show me.
I know that the Congress and the Senate are political bodies that have nothing to do with justice or law - if it suit them - they will forbid to bring witness or documents to a trial - as it happen during Trump impeachment.
But I was looking for the information you are talking about - when the House failed to hold public due process hearings in early November when Giuliani and the Trump legal team brought forward sworn witnesses to fraud - didn't find any. Can supply a link?

 

I support the rule of law. Whoever breaks the law should be punished - does not matter if he/she is on the left or on the right.

I don't see how liberalism and socialism is blamed for the disruption of the fundamental principles the nation was founded on, I see Trumpism as the major force which try to destroy American experiment. Trump spread accusation of fraud without any evidence which can hold in court.

What is 'propaganda'? 'American exceptionalism' is truth or propaganda? 'God exist' - it is truth or propaganda? 'Public healthcare is bad for Americans' - it is truth or propaganda? IMHO democracy - is the right of everyone to spread his/hers own propaganda.

What keeps North Korea under dynasty of dictators is not propaganda but fear from the secret police.Increase propaganda, but remove the fear - and dictatorship will collapse like in the Soviet Union and other communists countries.
I am not supporting your ideas - I support democracy and the rule of law. Everyone has right to think the election was stolen, everyone has a right to think that Trump is Putin's puppet, but only a court will decide is the allegation are valid.

 

While your whole position is like a thundermug, I think whatever you support does not qualify as democracy nor the rule of law. Unless you think justice and law have no relationship and democracy is a right only for you, but not for those who don't agree with you.

we're not going to find common ground here.

 

You have the right to think that my position is a thundermug and you position is a shining example of humane achievement, I think otherwise. Yes, I think the justice and the law are two difference things. There was a law during the slavery, even dictatorships have a law, but I think we both we all agree - the law without justice.
I think the democracy is specifically beneficial for people who disagree - institutions like public courts will mediate between the opposite sites.
Democracy will not serve people who are convinced they are right and their opponents are enemies of the people who think that "The single most relevant force behind this is the disruption of the fundamental principles the nation was founded on, and that is being fomented by liberalism and socialism, using the desperation of the democratic party as a vehicle".

So we have to agree that we're not going to find common ground.

 

Justice is something most people of good will can grasp without detailed explanation. Law is, or should be- an attempt to support justice, but that will always fail to some degree. An inherent element of the relationship is just laws and equal enforcement of law. Lacking that, laws become corrupt. I think you can agree with that.

Laws made by dictators have nothing to do with supporting justice, they are rules designed to support dictators. I think you can agree with that too.

Aside from that- I don't think you will recognize common ground. I remember an old say- "The man who says he will meet you halfway is often a damn poor judge of distance".

The problem is the way in which people re-write the definitions of law and justice as well as personal values, to suit themselves without consideration or respect for the rights of others. When you want laws to prevent people from saying anything that offends you, such as the imposition of the social law known as "Cancel culture", you have no real law- only little people who have somehow gained enough power to dictate and abuse others.

Liberalism and socialism are leading the pack. They have aligned themselves with the democrats who were desperate for power, like a dictator willing to take in mercenaries they couldn't control.
They will now find themselves with enemies without and within. When you make a deal with the devil, there will be hell to pay. Just watch it happen.

 

Americans have a swath of people who are poorly educated, white and afraid of change while being indoctrinated by Fix News

 

No doubt about that. People like you have accepted a lack of election fraud without any investigation. There has been no investigation. There hasn't even been time for one.

 

Ha ha.
You really don’t know the system do you ?
There has to be EVIDENCE first before the courts will consider a hearing. Monitoring and acquiring evidence is the responsibility of the REPUBLICAN poll watchers and state election boards of each state. Guess what, MANY OF THE CONTESTED STATES HAVE AGs that are republicans. Are you claiming the republican party is too INCOMPETENT at the state level to find evidence and submit it to federal courts. Cause they have found NOTHING.

 

The administration has the FBI, the federal investigation agency. Why haven’t states given them any evidence to start investigating at the federal level....WHY ?

Voter fraud is a federal offense. Now you’re complaining that the administration s not investigating. These are all TRUMP APPOINTEES. You Trumpets are so ill informed. I guess you’re saying the republican AGs in many of the states....are incompetent and republican poll monitors, are blind.

 

Yeah, your "friend" isn't very bright.

1. Eliminating signature matching creates distrust
2. Covering the windows of counting stations creates distrust.
3. Corralling "observers" like cattle, too far away to see anything, creates distrust.
4. Claiming that counting has "stopped" and sending GOP observers homes, and then resuming counting, creates distrust.

Even Jonathon Turley is calling for an Election Integrity Commission. Hopefully your rather dense "friend" grows a few brain cells.

 

Why do so many Americans believe there was election fraud? Because they were told that there was. Just as they are being told by Fox and Palin that it was antifa who violated the Capitol yesterday.

I think all these 'believers' must have been very good children, doing everything they are told to do. Believing everything they are told to believe. Not challenging anything or questioning their 'elders'.

 

Election fraud is a FEDERAL OFFENSE. Who is the president in charge of the administration ? It’s Trump. Barr is responsible for asking the fbi to investigate federal crimes. They will when republican election poll monitors give them EVIDENCE.

So if you’re whining about election integrity , look in the mirror. Democrats have no control of federal investigations of voter fraud.

 

Wow, Johnathan turley Is he the AG ? Otherwise, his opinion means sht, without evidence.


Didn’t Trump have a voter fraud election commission when he first came into office ? Yup, and like Bush, they found nothing.

 

They were told that Obama was an alien too. So, who was responsible for an unqualified person running for president ? The Bush admin. Now, Trumpers will have you believe that Trump is too incompetent to make sure the election process is fair.

 

Everyone is constantly re-writing the definitions of law and justice as well as personal values, to suit themselves without consideration or respect for the rights of others, it is done by Republicans and Democrats.

For example – in Feb 2016 Republicans refused to replace justice Antonin Scalia after his death, because it was to close to elections, but had no problem to confirm Amy Coney Barrett one month before the election.

I see you confuse Liberalism and Socialism. Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law. Socialism (as understood in America) is economic philosophy which stresses the importance of helping the average citizens by creating public healthcare, longer unemployment pay period. longer paid vacation, etc.

Currently in America (as I see it) the most desperate grab for power is Republican party which refuses to respect democratic election by spreading lies and accusing not only Democrats, but also US courts, SCOTUS and even Republicans who are refusing to lie.

 

You almost convinced me.

SCOTUS is wrong.
US courts are wrong.
Attorney General William Barr is wrong.
Georgia Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan, a Republican is wrong.
Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is wrong.
Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) are wrong.
Christopher Krebs, director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency is wrong.
many Republicans who supervised the elections and found no election fraud are wrong.

Thanks God we an ex-President who is right!

 

And, they have been doing it for decades.

 

where id you get that post supposedly from me??? ... I never wrote that ...

 

Liberalism is a moral philosophy that says whatever we think is righteous, therefore good for everybody whether they want it or not. Liberty is the last thing I see them concerned with- except for themselves. Anytime a philosophy hinges on the right to dictate, to suppress, to take from or diminish others for it's success- it's trash and most likely criminal.

The republicans are disrespecting the largest gas-light ploy in history. I can see that being offensive to those behind it. THEY are the abusers here.

 

There was an ELECTION FRAUD and it was Dirty Donald and his total BULLSHIT which many idiots swallowed hook line and sinker. SHAME ON YOU !!!!!

 

Because they haven't been asked?

Trump never appointed local election workers to my knowledge.

 

Because they haven't looked.

 

THE ONLY ELECTION FRAUD WAS DONALD J. TRUMP AND HIS MORONIC FOLLOWERS !!!!!!