Why this Intifada matters even more then any before.

There has been talk the past few days about the Palestinians taking Israel to the ICC - obviously that would also bring accountability to Hamas and other Gaza militants. On C4 tonight they were saying they were going to do it regardless as that is the only way they will get justice - not sure how definite that is but hopefully they will.

Then she is foolish. When the UN openly says that what has happened is shameful and that this time we must see a genuine solution and that involves ending the blockade, Israel is in trouble. The feeling that this cannot go on is strong in the world.

Lost on American public more like it. Certainly not lost on the Palestinians and you know that.

 

Oh I think they do have an idea, but the fact is that they're having talks. Whatever is in that playbook, they know they're running out of time. The world takes awhile, but when it acts, it acts. Remember South Africa fell due to economic sanctions. I'd be willing to bet that Israel took a note of that and is making sure that they don't make the same mistakes. They're drawing out the peace process until it becomes too late.

I doubt that's lost to the Palestinians. If a 18 year old could figure that out, then someone else even smarter probably figured it out too.

 

http://www.bdsmovement.net/

 

The thought process on this is wrong because Palestinians (gaza) choose to remain silent. Let THEM retaliate against Hamas for better street cred. But they won't.

 

The thought process of this is wrong because the civilians of Gaza are being massacred and their land destroyed in order that the civilians will fight against Hamas. However Hamas is their democratically elected government and what they notice is that Israel has kept them in a Ghetto for 8 years and Israel keeps attacking them and murdering their mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters - that is how the children see it - the adults similarly.

Hamas will give a ten year truce if the siege is lifted and other humanitarian conditions are met. Israel tried to leave these people still in their hell except with the catastrophic results of her recent action. Hardly surprising this has led to more not less support of Hamas as the people fight for their right for a life.

 

- See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/2014/gaz...august-day-of-rage-12423#sthash.eWZOmQT3.dpuf

 

We do not have to read one sided reports of murderers and their ilk... Here we have positive press that one has to reckon with.




https://www.letslearnspanish.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/CHM-Well-Done.jpg WELL DONE MR. MEOTTI !!!

Israel Holds the Free World's Destiny in Her Hands..

Giulio Meotti The writer, an Italian journalist with Il Foglio, writes a twice-weekly

Published: Sunday, July 20, 2014

These stubborn Israeli Jews are alone - alone in resisting in a battle for all of us.

The people of Israel are valiant, going about their daily lives knowing that Muslim killers might explode a bomb or rocket in any public place at any time.

Even more valiant are the Israeli soldiers, who are now fighting inside Gaza, house by house, spied on by cruel eyes, hated by old and young, targeted by beheaders, longed for by their families. These lone Jews fighting in a long night hold the free world's destiny in their hands.

The world is burning with jealousy of Israel and what it achieved for its people in a mere 65 years.

These stubborn Israeli Jews are alone - alone in resisting in a battle for all of us. It has been calculated that since the year of the founding of the state, more than 60,000 rockets have fallen on Israel. The Israelis are victimized and they are alone, abandoned by the world — now, just as then.

In the Second World War, hope didn't come from the Western avant garde, but from the Jews who rebelled against tyranny. The same is happening today

Open any Western newspaper and you will read about the trendy Israeli life under Hamas' rockets, life as usual, while the Arabs die. No mention of Israel as the most heavy bombed nation in the world. No mention of the trauma inflicted on two generations of Jewish children.

Israel is the first line of Western defense in the battle for non-Muslim survival and prosperity in the world. And now that the Jews are running for shelters and employing their brilliant Iron Dome, the world is burning with jealousy of Israel and what it achieved for its people in a mere 65 years.

For the UN, for the Christian bodies, for the White House, for the European Union, for the complacent public opinion and its journalistic sentinels, an independent Jewish State bearing the name “Israel,” with Jerusalem as its capital, a renewal of life in the land of the Bible, a vital Jewish people restored after 2,000 years to its own holy land, has raised unresolved questions and disturbing conclusions.

The Israelis are a very special people because they know how to live in the present and make this present worth living, while the West has drained its peoples' souls and made their lives meaningless, with only shallow-minded hedonism and materialism remaining. This is why Gentiles often hate the Jews.

The sagacious American author Eric Hoffer gave voice to the most tragic Holocaust-related 20th-century truth: "I have a premonition that will not leave me, as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us".

A peaceful and unique nation like Israel and its people have to resort to violent means to survive. My heart breaks for them

 

Regrettably the ICC is nothing more than a PR stunt. Unlike corporations, nations have not yet been declared individuals.
So the Palestinians will have to attempt to put Bibi et.al on trial. Since Israel (amongst others) doesn't recognize the courts jurisdiction it is a meaningless gesture.

Funny thing.
The feeling is strong but the will to do something about it is almost non-existent.

I agree that ending the blockade is part of a genuine solution, but so is eliminating Hamas and the other militants dedicated to all of historic palestine's liberation. So is removing many of the crazy arsed settlers who believe god gave them the land. So is building the institutions of democracy in Palestine so they can realize their nationalilstic dreams. '

The boiling down of this millenial conflict to a single action taken within a complete vacuum of trust may sound high falutin' to some but is in reality a pipe dream.

No actually I don't know that the Palestinian leadership (especially the Islamists) have any clue that facts on the ground matter and provide enormous negotiating leverage. You may recall that the Palestinians appear rather focussed on rewinding the clock 70 years or so, which renders current reality irrelevant to their idea of jsut resolution.

 

they have been running out of time for decades now.

In fact, considering the rise of 7th century Barbaric Islamist groups within the region and the flaring global Muslim sectarian civil war, I think Israel has been provided with more than enough operational cover for the immediate future.

If only there were smarter palestinians to craft a more effective strategy.
Might be time to turn it over to that smart 18 year old. At least he couldn't do much worse a job.

 

I'm more waiting for when Reagan reappears and reluctantly decides to cut aid but yeah that's a good start. I hope it works out in the end.

 

Hamas is their voice. All the anger and frustration from 50 years of not even being a state comes out through them. Do I think that Hamas is going to give up power? Not any time soon. Do I think that they have to give up power for peace talks to move forward? Sort of. There needs to be a moderate approach, like through the PLA.

 

Actually given the current geo-political problems of today, it would make more sense for Israel to stop fighting Palestine. A show of force isn't necessary,but not having to worry about Palestine opposition, that's key.

And with responses like this, I wonder how the world works sometimes.

 

Well, if Palestinians would wake up, they would realize that Israel WOULD leave them alone but tossing 3000 rockets in Israels direction would tend to (*)(*)(*)(*) off any civilized country to the point of kicking butt and taking names.

 

Thank you Krane. That is a sensible reply to my position. I would always expect some more brow beating from a lot of other posters. However your sensible reply makes my day!

 

Your welcome. It's good to know that I'm making some sort of difference here.

 

You and all the anti Israeli terrorist sympathizers here differ it seems as they proclaim that Hamas and their terrorism, vows to wipe out Israel and use their people as human shields are not the voice of the average Palestinian as the average Palestinian wishes peace.

So, the average Palestinian wishes war on Israel to destroy her, make Jihad, no negotiations for peace, make the land between the river and the sea an islamic Waif as Hamas doe in your belifief?


Just getting you on record for future record.

 

Abbas is now in charge for the Palestinian Unity Government. I am so glad they have this unity again though it has cost thousands of lives.

Though I certainly would not want Hamas as my government I think the way she is presented is a deliberate tactic to carry on keeping the people of Gaza in a ghetto and to stop the Palestinians making political progress.

A British Intelligent officer worked with Hamas for some time. He had worked on conflict resolution in many places including NI so was very experienced. You might like to read an interview of him speaking of his work

http://www.geneva-accord.org/mainmenu/interview-with-alistair-crook

In a different article I read several years ago he said that he had reached a point with Hamas where he believed he could create a working relationship between them and Israel when London pulled him off the job. His belief was that he was pulled off the job because it was not wanted to have Hamas as someone who could be worked with.

In reality Britains stance to the Palestinians took a nose dive after 9/11. Prior to that our government had considerable sympathy towards the Palestinians, people had some empathy for why they acted in the way they did and the government was saying it was going to make sure Israel got it's finger out and put Oslo into action. This paper shows how this changed and within that why we now unthinkingly believe that Hamas is impossible to work with.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n05/alastair-crooke/permanent-temporariness

Hope you enjoy these.

 

Arabs have begged Youtube to remove this video

Watch it


http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/arab-palestinians-have-begged-youtube-to-remove-this-video

Also watch
Rabbi Lord Sacks speaks on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights


http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/the-world-wide-war-against-radical-islam-begins-with-these-words

 

It always makes sense to wage peace instead of war.

OTOH, a show of force is absolutely necessary.
Have you perhaps noticed the nature of governance and power politics associated with Israel's regional neighbours?

The only reason Israel still exists is that it is far more powerful than its arab neighbours. Its not like the arabs haven't tried a few times to obliterate them only to get their arses whupped EVERY TIME (lebannon 2 being a rare and isolated exception).

Considering the brilliant palestinian strategy to date has effectively resulted in further loss of land and resouces, thousands of dead, chronic destruction, relentless oppression and humilation of occupation, rampant corruption, the rise of Islamists and their lethal intolerance, massive economic dependence on the charity of others, a culture of hatred and victimization, I think it reasonable to consider that fact that an 18 year couldn't do a worse job.

OTOH, I do agree that figuring out how humans wield power within their cultures can be a true stumper. It never fails to astonish me how truly ignorant and stupid we can be at times.

 

I get why peace is desirable here, but Palestine shouldn't be fighting. I get the reason why Israel would want to flex its muscles, but Palestine doesn't really have any. Better to get world opinion on your side another way.

1967 proved that. But it's not the same anymore. Back in 2008, even the Israeli Palestinians were voicing against Israel. The world doesn't like them. It's going to be hard getting support if the only country backing you is the US. Why do I say that? The youth favor Palestine. Unless this changes in the coming years, Israel is going to run out of friends real quick.

You mean the strategy of them responding to Israel taking their land, blockading them, deprieving them of water? Given that fact there, they know what's going on. I may call it one thing, but they know Israel is just a modern day Rome.

True. It's hard to imagine that we can be wrong.

 

Right now I have about 12 more posts to respond to, so I'll read them in a bit. Thank you for these though.

 

I don't support Hamas. I don't support Israel. I support finding peace. I supporting pointing out the ugly in both sides so they can't claim the moral high ground. I see this conflict as nothing more then a massive mud throwing fight. In the end, when peace talks are being made, they say the other person is covered in more mud then they. I support pointing out that both of them is covered in mud from head to toe and that you both need to clean up your acts. I want this conflict to end in my generation. The only way to do that, IMO, is to be the moderate who doesn't buy into all the partisan crap that both sides say.

 

I liked them. It's good to hear from all sorts of points of view.

 

Yes I would suggest to you the very first thing to do is to stop firing rockets.

The world, meaning the 33 arab countries and 50+ muslim countries and a few others scattered around the globe. A powerful anti-Israel diplomatic voice on the world stage. Funny how this built in bias is never raised when discussing UN Resolutions, not to mention the proclamations by people like UNWRA, UNHRC.

Israel isn't going to run out of friends real quick. They are on the front lines of a raging sectarian Muslim war that has flared from its long smoldering ashes into a gigantic flaming perversion of the entire religion with its accompanying total disregard for human life and dignity ever since operation shock and awe. Stay tuned for the next exciting chapter in the sunni/shia war.

Yes the idiotic, simplistic, bloody minded strategy that has yielded a microscopic return for an enormous price of blood, misery, oppression, brutality, impoverishment, and destruction.

Funny how history seems to be entirely forgotten when lamenting the Poor Palestinian Islamist Leadership and the misery they readily and willingly subject their people to.

Not as easy as it is to imagine there's no countries,
it isn't hard to do.
nothing to kill or die for
and no religion too.
Imagine all the people
living life in peace....