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As for your ridiculous “point” about whites get less jail time. There are three reasons for that:

#1 Blacks are FAR more likely to commit a crime with a prior criminal record resulting in more time.

#2 Blacks are FAR more likely to commit a crime with a firearm resulting in more time.

#3 (and most important) blacks are FAR LESS likely to hire a lawyer and instead to rely upon a public defender. Resulting in more time.

 

Your quotes dont support your assertion.

 

The facts are that any self respecting city got a narcotics division, and there is a war on drugs. Your claim that cops at random react to violence in black neighborhoods and so end up with all them drug arrests is not founded by any source.

 

White people commit more total crime in the drugs department because they are 60-something % of the total population... AND THEY PUNCH ABOVE THEIR WEIGHT!
I already sourced it twice, and quoted the text again in post 397.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...act-same-crime-as-a-white-person-study-finds/
These disparities were observed “after controlling for a wide variety of sentencing factors,” including age, education, citizenship, weapon possession and prior criminal history. // According to the Sentencing Commission's report, the black/white sentencing disparities are being driven in large part by “non-government sponsored departures and variances” — in plain English, sentencing choices made by judges at their own discretion. Judges are less likely to voluntarily revise sentences downward for black offenders than for white ones, in other words. And even when judges do reduce black offenders' sentences, they do so by smaller amounts than for white offenders

How about you start admitting to what I have sourced, instead of sticking to whatever you are inventing how the world is like but can't prove?

 

You're not showing how it is not.

 

They didn’t control for public defenders vs hiring a lawyer. Which, as I pointed out, is THE most likely determining factor of whether or not you get more time.

https://academic.oup.com/aler/article-abstract/16/2/577/168436


The study’s findings include:

• The national data show that “assigned counsel generate significantly less favorable outcomes for indigent defendants than public defenders.”
• This dynamic holds for a “variety of specifications and outcome measures, including likelihood of being convicted of the most serious charged offense, sentence length, and speed with which cases are resolved.”
• Across the national dataset, 47% of cases for which there is a guilty or not-guilty verdict were handled by public defenders, while 12% were handled by assigned counsel.

If you don’t hire a lawyer you get screwed and it doesn’t matter what color you are. Blacks hire lawyers at GROSSLY underrepresented rates compared to whites.

 

Hang on.
You first brought up that the discrepancy is due to:
1) criminal record
2) firearm
3) lawyers

And my source says it's specifically not related to the criminal record or the firearm... but due the what a judge has to say about it. So lets get this straight that you flat out lied that it's about criminal record and firearms to me. You now drag in a source that's not about why black and white people get different sentences, from what you are quoting... while the report is behind a paywall that I can't see. So that ship aint sailing. My source specifically puts it down to what the judge has to say about it.

 

No in fact I didn’t lie at all your source makes a bogus assertion based on ONE YEARS worth of prior offense data.

From your source (or your sources source):

“Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing. Black male offenders received sentences on average 20.4 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders, accounting for violence in an offender’s past in fiscal year 2016, the only year for which such data is available.”

YOUR assertion is that this is because of racism. I would assert this is because they only looked at ONE years worth of data.

Regardless I didn’t lie but you did. Because while you’re attempting to use this source to assert that it was racial discrimination on the part of the judges, your source EXPLICITLY STATES and I quote:

“Because multivariate regression analysis cannot control for all of the factors that judges may consider, the results of the analyses presented in this report should be interpreted with caution and should not be taken to suggest discrimination on the part of judges. Multivariate analysis cannot explain why the observed differences in sentencing outcomes exist, but only that they do exist.”

Which is EXACTLY what you’re trying to do. As they pointed out and I also pointed out at the beginning of this conversation. They didn’t address all variables. The MAIN variable they are not addressing is public defender v private lawyer. That difference would account for essentially every claim of racism that you have within the court system.

 

It's not up to other people to prove you wrong, it's up to you to prove your assertion. You have not.

 

This is the 2nd time you are conceding that you lied it is firearm related or related to criminal history, by totally ignoring my point.

I also note that
You keep on claiming it has to do with the roll of the lawyers, but you can't prove it. I said this before, but you're ignoring this.
This claim was made with the false claims that it must be firearm related or related to criminal history.
I can only judge that you are conceding that you indeed can't prove anything. All that stands is my source:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...act-same-crime-as-a-white-person-study-finds/

According to the Sentencing Commission's report, the black/white sentencing disparities are being driven in large part by “non-government sponsored departures and variances” — in plain English, sentencing choices made by judges at their own discretion. Judges are less likely to voluntarily revise sentences downward for black offenders than for white ones, in other words. And even when judges do reduce black offenders' sentences, they do so by smaller amounts than for white offenders. That finding suggests that giving judges more discretion in sentencing, as the Booker decision did in 2005, allows more racial bias to seep into the process.

black offenders were 75 percent more likely to face a charge carrying a mandatory minimum sentence than a white offender who committed the same crime.


And so it stands. The more room a judge gets to give a sentence, the more they give black people a harsher sentence compared to whites. While the DA is more likely to seek a harsher sentence against a black person vs whites. This is what systemic racism is about. Everybody is in on it.


You also are pushing the goalpost as if this only happened in 2016. To clear that up:
I put up https://www.hamiltonproject.org/cha...y_race_rates_of_drug_related_criminal_justice
It's from 2015

 

Well, first surveys asking people to self report if they have committed drug crimes in the past isnt the most accurate method for determining who has committed drug crimes in the past, AND the resulting statistics tell us nothing about how many times people committed these drug crimes.

 

Aha.
Let me guess. You got no source, but all it takes to uproot my 2 sources is just stating your opinion that you know best. lol

 

Bruh I’m going to ignore for a moment your last “source” that you purport is on your side.

Im going to educate you for a second instead. Yes your source still stands. Unfortunately for you, your source DIRECTLY REFUTES the position you’re taking in using said source. Your source EXPLICITLY states that the data it provides CANNOT be used to assert that judges are racist or that the actions of said judges are racist.

Why? Because it’s a multi variable analysis. And unless they control for EVERY SINGLE variable possible there’s NO LOGICAL WAY you can use that data to assert “RACISM RAWWRRRRR!!!1!1!!”

Back to your last source. They controlled for literally NOTHING. Including severity of crime. From your source:

“Blacks are 2.7 times as likely as whites to be arrested for a drug-related crime, and receive sentences that are almost 50 percent longer. Furthermore, blacks are 6.5 times as likely to be incarcerated for drug-related offenses at the state level. Drug-related crime is certainly a broad category that does not allow for distinctions to be made regarding the seriousness of the drug-related crime.”

Would you like to try that bullshit again?

 

You are never minding I gave more sources.
I gave 2 sources that whites do more drugs, yet cops arrest black people far more frequently.
That is systemic racism. That part stands. It has nothing to do with judges. And you are conceding on it by not disputing it.


About the sources of the judge.
The main things still stand:
1) whites get a shorter sentence under the exact same circumstances.
2) the more room a judge gets to make up how long the sentence they can give, the bigger the difference they make between black and whites.

That 2nd one is flat out proving systemic racism by judges.

And here you are clinging to this utterly last straw, how there might be somewhere different factors they are not aware of in 1 source. Nowhere does the source say it's not systemic racism. You are flat out lying again when claiming my sources say this / aka "directly refutes" this.

I gave an other source how DA's simply ask bigger penalties against black people for the same crime. That too is systemic racism, and is that last straw you're clinging on about the judges.

And so I proved it's not just the cops, and not just the judge, but the DA as well.

You flat out lied that the difference in sentencing had to do with previous convictions and the use of firearms.

 

????? Its YOUR source that doesnt tell us anything about how many times they use drugs. I dont need another source.
And its YOUR source that says-

So when the police get complaint calls on a bunch of "black" guys selling drugs on the street outside the callers home, and the police respond by looking for black guys selling drugs on the street, which will have a disparate impact upon blacks, HRW labels this racism. Even though the intent of the police is to serve the needs of the citizens making the complaint, CRT and HRW argue that the intent is irrelevant. Only the results determines if racism exist. If it has a disparate impact upon blacks, it is by definition structural racism.

 

It remains your opinion HRW haven't done their research properly.
I'm not taking your word for it vs HRW. Get real.
What a joke you think anybody would. lol

You are inventing that black people get arrested far more often, because people call the cops on them more often.
That too is your opinion. You got no source to back this up. So you got nothing.

 

Those offenders had priors that exacerbated the sentencing, try not lying next time. Is there a prize for race baiting and what do you plan to do for the black community when you win it?

 

The "narrative" - that is, the verifiable facts - that blacks commit more murders than any other race, in both raw numbers and per capita?
How is this "narrative" shattered?

 

I never said anything about their research not being proper. Grasping about for refuge in your next strawman I see.
Their cited survey doesnt reveal how many times people have used or sold drugs in the past. HRW doesnt make any assertion that it does.
Why not try addressing what you choose to quote and respond to for a change.

 

You are still criticizing the research, while you're no expert. It starts to be dumb to deny that you are. It remains so that you are in no position to uproot HRW as a credible source because you got an opinion about it. I do not care about your opinion. You need to prove and source your things.

 

These are facts. They ask people in a survey to self reveal if they have used or sold drugs in the past. They do not ask how frequently they do so. How long they have done so. Probably 99+% of drug crimes are never reported to the police and are not a part of HRW statistics. AND HRW and CRT simply define ANY racial disparity that disfavors blacks as the product of racism, EVEN while admitting there are MANY reasons for the racial disparity. The reason for the disparity is irrelevant to CRT and HRW
Thats why I point to statistics on murder and robbery because most murders and robberies are reported to the police. The same reason you dont want to touch murder or robbery statistics and would rather talk about drugs.

 

We don't have to look at drug or arrest statistics.

All the police officers convicted of killing a black or brown person has been defended saying they (the victim) *caused* that end result, even in cases with no direct threat or defiance.

However, the whole world watched thousands of white people mob attack Capitol officers and now the "script is flipped". Had that mob attack happened by any other race or nationality of people, the same defenders would absolutely defend that none of them should ever see the light of day outside our prison walls.

There are people still blaming black and brown people for the continued spread of COVID when the predominant demographic that will not wear masks, socially distance or get vaccinated are white Republicans.

In other words, it's irrelevant to them if the facts disprove their position.

 

The narrative is shattered by providing the context that racists intentionally omit. This context helps the reader to realize that they don't have to fear black people since 99.9 percent of black people are not represented by that statistic.

 

PER CAPITA
Per capita - Wikipedia