Will the War in Gaza Ignite the Middle East?..Israel and Iran On a Collision Course

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Iranian Monitor, Oct 21, 2023.

  1. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Well-Known Member

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    Lol actually you’re even more wrong than I called you out on. the US had been invaded three times.

    I’ll let you figure out what the 3rd is, doubt you’ll do so since you’re not interested in actually figuring anything out before spouting off like you know things.

    Learn your history/facts before making points. Stop moving goal posts around when you’re called out on it, and stop falling back on mischaracterizations of other people to cover for your mistakes. Own your mistakes, don’t BS around.

    Do all that and you might actually be right once in a while.
     
  2. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    America is so desperate to get Iran involved in this conflict.

    The great irony is that the USA is possibly the ONLY nation in the world not to be invaded by another nation, yet they stroll around the globe as biggest warmongers in the world, picking fights with other nations, they have the most foreign military bases and a bigger military budget than all of the major nations combined and no, iDont consider Alaska part of USA. That's like saying the Falkland Islands are part of the UK .
     
  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Just as pitiful is your lack of knowledge about the British invasion of the U.S. in 1812. That happened in the Northeast U.S. not Alaska. Oh yes, there was that Japanese air attack on Pearl Harbor. But there is no doubt your homeland was attacked fiercely by the Nazi's in WWII. There were 9 other incidents in history as well. Read up on it. The hisory goes back to the Romans and Vikings.
     
  4. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Before I will start to answer to your post – lets not forget that we are talking about the war of two groups – Israelis and Arabs. Talking about faults of one side only is primitive propaganda which will teach us nothing.
    For example – if someone wants to describe WWII talking only about Russian and American crimes during WWII, we will learn that Germans were innocent victims of Russian/American aggression.

    Another thing when taking about Israel - we both know that taking about Jewish conspiracies is popular subject – even on Political Forum there are people who constantly write negative things about Jews - sometimes true, sometimes false, but many times they blame Jews and Israel for the most ridicules things, like for that Jews are not real Jews, but the real Jews are Black people. Even Alon Musk recently agreed that “Jews are promoting "hatred" against white people” and that “Jews support "bringing hordes of minorities" into western nations”, which I consider false and ridicules.

    So if you agree with me, lets objectively continue our discussion and not see it as black-white picture, where one side is always bad and other side is always good.

    About Pew Research Centre poll: I have no idea what were the questions in the poll, but I see a LOGICAL contradiction in what was written:
    Almost half of Jewish Israelis believe Arabs should be "expelled or transferred" from Israel, a survey has found.
    A study carried out by the Pew Research Centre found that around one in five adults questioned “strongly agreed” with the controversial statement, which amounts to ethnic cleansing under some definitions.

    One in five means 20%. I also don’t know what were the questions in the poll, I don’t understand what it means “strongly agreed” and “agree not strongly”, so now lets see how Palestinians are feeling about peace with Israel.
    I looked for the similar poll within Palestinian population, and this is what I found:
    https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
    https://jcpa.org/a-new-poll-of-palestinians-supporting-terror-and-rejecting-peace/
    So seeing all these polls any rational person must consider Israelis more peaceful oriented that Palestinians. And the interesting question is why quoting this Palestinians polls is so unpopular.

    No, I am not omitting fact that the Arabs used to inhabit all of Palestine, but I am not racist and for me Palestinians are not super humans or under humans, for me Palestinians are the same humans as Jews, Germans, Indians or Pakistanis. I also know the history of the Middle East and some facts Palestinian propaganda successfully hided. In the last few hundred years Arabs did not have any country in Palestine – once it was part of Ottoman Empire and from 1920 the part of British empire. Jews immigrated to Palestine, legally purchased the land and agreed to the UN partition of Palestine, Arabs did not agreed, attacked Israel and lost the war. And those are human rules or war – if you attack a country and loose, some populations will be expelled, as happened to millions of Germans, Indians or Pakistanis, but Palestinian propaganda convinced many people that when Jews are involved in the war – the rules are different. The world allowed expulsion of millions of Germans, Indians and Pakistanis, but for 700 thousand expelled Palestinians the rules are different – even a special UN organization was created to help Palestinians: UNRWA - United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. Did you notice how smart it was to call it UNRWA and not UNRWAPRNE? Other refugees could ask why only Palestinians have its own organization and not refugees from Ukraine, Bangladesh, Syria, Yemen or other – it was brilliant!

    America doesn't tolerate murderous, racist rampages against innocent? Why responding to Oct 7 attack is "murderous, racist rampages against innocent" and killing civilians in Iraq or Afghan is different? Because Palestinians are Super Humane or maybe Iraqi and Afghan are Under humane? Can you explain it?

    Again – brilliant Palestinian propaganda. Palestinians did excellent job hiding what is the aim of Hamas and most people are too lazy to read it. I read it. If you read Hamas chapter you will know that Oct 7 attack had nothing to do with ‘"Settler" expansionism’, Hamas attacked parts of Israel which belonged to Israel from 1948. Hamas chapter writes very clearly – they want to destroy Israel and instead of Israel they want to create an undemocratic Muslim country. Two state solution or any secular country is totally unacceptable for Hamas. Thanks to Palestinian brilliant propaganda millions of unaware people demonstrate with slogans 'from the river to the sea'.

    Yes, I know, Abba Evan once said: “If Algeria introduced a UN resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.”.

    Genocide has a legal definition, and the legal definition is not “genocide is when majority of countries decide it is genocide”.

    I understand your way of thinking, it is very common. Not only Bin Laden, also people in Gaza though that American brought 9/11 attack on themselves:


    Many people in Israel are thinking that Palestinians brought destruction of Gaza on themselves by supporting Oct 7 attack.
    Anyone who did not serve in the army thinks that friendly fire never happens and friendly fire on Oct 7 is a sign of an effort to make Hamas look worse.
    I served in the army and in one occasion my unit was the subject of friendly fire – and nobody in my unit suspected any conspiracy. I also know that Israel is democratic country and if someone would give orders to shoot Israelis in an effort to make Hamas look worse – I am sure the response of soldiers would be – are you idiot? And for sure it would leak to Israeli press, the same as some Israeli TV reported that rumors about cutting Israelis children heads was untrue.

    I see Gaza war as very simple event: Hamas knew that Israeli reaction on Oct 7 attack will much worse that Operation Cast Lead or Operation Pillar of Cloud, but anyway they decided to do it. Why? From 2007 Gaza is semi-country under 100% of Hamas rule. Hamas received billion of dollars, but instead in investing it in infrastructure, education, hospitals and improvement of standard of living of people of Gaza, they invested all this funds in themselves and in arms and rockets. People in Gaza were getting upset. So Hamas did what any dictators would do in the similar situation – start the war.
     
  5. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, so who does Alaska actually belong to? Russia???

    LOLOLOLOL!!!!
     
  6. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    The British and Americans are fathers and son, iDont consider that a true invasion but merely a war for territorial rights by two colonial adversary's
     
  7. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Canada.

    Russia sold it to USA but we all know it's not really theirs
     
  8. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    We all know Canada didn't buy it. More misinformation.
     
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  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Glad I didn't have to read the tripe past this. I didn't have to go past this to reject it. It is a war betweeen two groups - Israelis and Hamas terrorists who happen to be Arabs and who initiated the war.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Neither side was a colony. Both were independent nations. So let's call it fathers and adult sons. It was a real invasion. The British forces even burned down the White House.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
  11. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    The British were more indigenous than any European there, therefore it wasn't an invasion by a foreign nation. Your semantics are meaningless.

    It was our (UK) colonial territory.

    It was an internecine war, not invasion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
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  12. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    probs wrong but...were there not more French lads on the continent?
     
  13. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    That was Canada bro. Us Brits ran north America and still do. 90% of usa presidents are descendants of us Brits. Pretty much all white American intellectual capacity is due to you and i
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
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  14. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Ppl say that UK is USA puppy dogs but looks behind the scenes, UK has the intellectuals and American are the armoured core of our insidious empire that lurks. The UK pulls the strings in actuality due to our diplomatic skills that Americans just can't fathom. All Americans see is guns, guns pointed at the head of any belligerents. They are our muscle.

    The problem is that muscle knows no loyalty. I'd rather a loyal partner that a knuckle dragging partner because a knuckle dragger can turn that power against you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
  15. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    :)...did you know the term "President" was decided upon because of the "gentlemanly" connotations if revived from cricket which was the most popular sport in the US at the time...Cricket Clubs were run by Presidents....John Adams wanted "his exalted high mightiness"!!
     
  16. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Well, they certainly neglected their gentleman status by disowning cricket.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
  17. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the biggest irony is the fact, that the US, the country which TWICE saved Europe from destruction (WWI and WWII), country which saved Europe from Soviet Union/Russian aggression is considered by some as “biggest warmongers in the world”.

    The most bloody war in the US was civil war to end slavery, but still some Blacks are more than happy to forget that slavery in the US was possible only because some African countries were eager to sale Black slaves to Europeans.

    And as to Alaska – Esau, you can now consider Alaska as part of USA – recently it was discovered that news about Putin demanding Alaska back to Russia was fake news:
    https://news.yahoo.com/posts-falsely-claim-russian-decree-104507969.html
     
  18. clg311

    clg311 Well-Known Member

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    If it does you can thank genocide Joe for his support of Israel which is not entitled to one penny of taxpayer money. The US has no business having bases in Iraq, Jorden or anyplace outside of the US and NATO countries.
     
  19. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    How about South Korea? Japan?
     
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I will try to be brief as I feel that we have discussed an especially wide range of issues and simply have been impressed by different experiences and conflicting information.

    Among your requests were:

    I have attempted to communicate that I feel neither side is innately more violent, evil or better in any way than the other.

    Especially since 7 October 2023, I don't doubt that most any resident of Gaza capable of killing an Israeli would do so out of revenge for decades of humiliation, occupation, stolen land and deaths of loved ones.

    I think that most people will agree that the arbitrary decisions made by the Colonial Powers to take land from the Arabs and give it to foreign Jews is the basis for the Nakba and 70+ years of cyclical violence.

    Because of that, I do not think that either Jews or Arabs are innately violent but they have been put into an impossible situation.

    It is at least my opinion that Palestine's native residents which comprised about 85% of Palestine's population in 1900 will have lost / surrendered more than enough land if Israel were to abide by International Law (UN Resolutions # 242 and # 338).
    Of course the Israelis and Palestinians could adjust the borders to their mutual agreement but the borders must be drawn somewhere and respected if there is ever to be peace between the two people.

    Israel's militant "Settlers" knew they were violating International Law when they built on "Disputed territory" and should not be rewarded for their theft any more than criminals who stole Jewish property in Europe during WW 2 deserve to keep stolen property.

    If Jewish survivors and heirs deserve reparations for the Holocaust then Nakba survivors and their heirs deserve the same justice.

    While nothing can be done about the past and peace in the region has never been so distant, the best we can hope for is damage control.
    I think that you have to face the facts that Netanyahu is losing his war on Gaza, only recruiting more resistance fighters / terrorists solidifying anti Israeli sentiment around the world.

    I feel that it is less likely to be a direct conflict between Israel and Iran than they are to do battle by way of their proxies around the region.
    The only way that Israel will confront Iran is behind the US if and when AIPAC is "quietly successful", again, in getting Americans to fight a much bigger war with Iran than Iraq:

    “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

    AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

    There are obviously other points on which we disagree but I think that we agree that any land taken by force must be held by force and that Netanyahu's "war" on Gaza and subsequent occupation can only fail in making Israel and the world's Jews more secure.

    Thanks,
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2024
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why the Middle East Is So Aggravating (yet so difficult to leave) || Peter Zeihan
     
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  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  23. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are setting the middle east on fire with our stupid support of a genocidal regime in Israel. And now our actions are spreading the conflict.
    Iraqis are ****ing furious. And I don't blame them. We are going to send their country spiraling into chaos again. Imagine if China decided to drop a bomb in Chicago to kill someone they called a terrorist?
    This double standard on how national sovereignty is treated needs to end.
     
  24. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    It's terrorism plain and simple.global Assassinations by USA and USA backed Israel.. the two biggest terrorist states in the world according to public intellectuals
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2024
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  25. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Right after 9/11 GW Bush said this would be a different kind of war, and it is. If you provide aid and comfort to those who kill Americans, you will pay a price. There is no double standard; there is only the standard: no safe haven for terrorists.
     

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