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Thread: Obamacare A Big Lie From The Start...

  1. Default Obamacare A Big Lie From The Start...

    Funny how Obama claimed that this bill would not add to our deficit. He never read any of it.

    Obamacare: Obama Lied, Our Budget Died:

    Back on September 9, 2009, President Obama called together a joint session of Congress to listen to him talk about his Obamacare plan. This large-scale PR effort was based on the notion that Obamacare wouldn’t just keep deficits neutral, it would actually cut them. Here’s what Obama said:

    And here's what you need to know. First, I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits -- either now or in the future. (Applause.) I will not sign it if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future, period. And to prove that I'm serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don't materialize …. This plan will not add to our deficit.

    Why take on health care in the middle of an economic crisis? Obama answered:

    Put simply, our health care problem is our deficit problem. Nothing else even comes close. Nothing else.

    This was nonsense when he spoke it. What private citizens spend on health care does not contribute to the national deficit; what the government does contributes to our national deficit. Reform of Medicare and Medicaid was and is necessary, of course, but Obamacare was never designed to cut deficits – it was designed to grow them.

    The Washington Post reports today that Obamacare will add over $340 billion to our deficit over the next decade. The report on which the Post article is based is written by Charles Blahous, a “conservative policy analyst whom Obama approved in 2010 as the GOP trustee for Medicare and Social Security.”

    Blahous’ study shows that the savings supposedly generated by Obamacare flow into the Medicare hospitalization trust fund – which means that the money isn’t saved, it’s just used to pay more benefits to those who already have insurance. Opponents of the study say that Blahous’ standards are different from “bipartisan budget rules” used to measure deficit-reduction issues. But so what? He’s either correct in his analysis or he’s not. And in this case, he’s obviously correct – typical budget rules allow for “double counting” of Medicare savings. The Congressional Budget Office admits as much.

    Jonathan Chait, among others, has argued that the study itself is flawed. What’s his evidence? He pulls the Koch card, stating that Blahous works for the Mercatus Center, and the Kochs give money to Mercatus, and therefore Blahous must be their sock puppet … or something.

    His substantive argument is a bit better – he says that Blahous’ study is bogus because it assumes that Medicare will automatically reduce payments if its trust fund isn’t funded, and that it won’t if the funding is available. Therefore, says the Blahous study, if the trust fund is funded via Obamacare, new deficits will be created, because cuts won’t take place; the money that would be headed to the trust fund can’t be used to fund other stuff. Chait calls this assumption “completely bizarre.”

    But why is that assumption bizarre? It’s how the law currently operates, as the CBO recognizes. Paul Krugman, who agrees with Chait, contends that’s not good enough – we should figure that Medicare will be funded from somewhere else. But where is that money supposed to come from? Wait, wouldn’t that raise the deficit, too?

    Chait’s argument – and Krugman’s by extension – is empty. It says we routinely double count cash, so let’s continue double-counting cash. As Blahous explains:

    Here’s a simple way to think of it: under law Medicare is permitted to spend any proceeds of savings in the Medicare HI program. If we cut $1 from Medicare HI spending in the near term, then an additional $1 is credited to the HI Trust Fund as a result. The Trust Fund thus lasts longer and its spending authority is expanded, permitting it to spend another $1 in a later year …. A core fiscal problem with the ACA is that the same $1 in Medicare savings that expands Medicare’s future spending authority by $1 is also assumed to finance the creation of a large new federal health program. Taken together, these two expansions of spending authorities — the new health program and Medicare’s solvency extension — far exceed the cost-savings in the legislation.

    Obama promised not to raise deficits. Anybody with a modicum of common sense could see that he was clearly going to raise deficits by somehow creating a new right for which Obama had no ability to pay under current law.

    Source
    "Progressives are the architects of American decline, and progressivism is the ideology of American suicide." - Dinesh D'Souza

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  4. #2

    Default

    Just one more lie - of so many lies.



    And he's gonna keep on lying til we get him out and even beyond that.
    Last edited by Trinnity; Apr 10 2012 at 07:57 PM.
    Civil debate is expected.
    Fair warning: trolling and personal attacks will get you nowhere, and I will report you
    .


  5. Default

    I think that the problem was that the democrats were less concerned with finances and more concerned with extending coverage. The biggest problem is healthcare inflation though, Obama was right to try healthcare. It is not nonsense to say that our healthcare problem is our deficit problem, it most certainly is. Unless you tackle healthcare inflation any reform of medicare and medicaid is meaningless.

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  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad View Post
    I think that the problem was that the democrats were less concerned with finances and more concerned with extending coverage. The biggest problem is healthcare inflation though, Obama was right to try healthcare. It is not nonsense to say that our healthcare problem is our deficit problem, it most certainly is. Unless you tackle healthcare inflation any reform of medicare and medicaid is meaningless.
    Yes, healthcare costs are expensive. However, implementing a 2700 page monstrosity that affects 1/8 of our economy, and has not been read by our elected officials, is not the answer.
    "Progressives are the architects of American decline, and progressivism is the ideology of American suicide." - Dinesh D'Souza

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Truth View Post
    RepubliCON care:


    45,000 dead Americans every year.

    900,000 dead Americans in the last 20 years.

    "pro life" RepubliCONS rejoice.
    And you base your figures on what exactly?

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drj90210 View Post
    And you base your figures on what exactly?

    Oh, I'm sure it's based on a political agenda, nothing more. Yes, mean old republicans are killing you, but abortions now thats just population control.
    Just once I would like a liberal to offer up a logical train of thought.

  10. Default

    I just want to make something clear to Americans: You are being taxed out of your paycheck to pay for Medicare. If you ever want to get your money back, and have Medicare pay for your medical treatment when you get old you have to play by their rules. Medicare imposes a limit on how much you can pay your doctor, in addition to the fixed sum they pay the doctor. If the doctor accepts more money from you than is allowed, the doctor could lose his ability to ever recieve reimbursement from Medicare.

    Obama and the Democratic Party have reduced ammount that Medicare will pay for treatments, even as the cost of medical care has been increasing. So many doctors have stopped accepting Medicare, and it can be impossible to find some types of doctors who will accept Medicare in a growing number of regions. Medicare only allows the doctor to bill the patient 15% more than the fixed ammount that Medicare will reimburse.

    http://blog.heritage.org/2010/11/18/...-payment-mess/

    A doctor does not absolutely have to accept Medicare, but then the patient is not getting back any of all that tax he was forced to pay into Medicare. In other words, Medicare is more and more turning into a tax on those that can afford to get medical treatment outside the government system. Does it make sense that you should be taxing the sick to pay for your sick poor?

    As the Medicare reimbursements get lower, it will become more difficult to obtain medical treatment, and the quality will suffer. This will drive a growing number of people to pay out-of-pocket, reducing the burden on Medicare.
    Last edited by Anders Hoveland; May 02 2012 at 10:29 PM.

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  12. Default

    we never got ObamaCare or we would have a public option, we got what congress could get us, no more... still much work to be done

    maybe Romeny can run on health care
    ~
    belief is what is important, not so much what you believe, for instance, an ordinary sugar pill without belief helps no one, but with belief it can cure your ills and it can be quite the amazing little pill - the magic really comes from within

    ~

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    If Americans become required by law to buy health insurance, I hope all those undocumented immigrants will also be required to. Perhaps this would help ease the burden on the country's emergency rooms. But really, I do not see how all those immigrants that come to the United States to work for low wages are going to be able to afford to buy health insurance. I have a feeling the progressives are just want to use the new laws as a facade to tax the middle class to give to the poor.

  14. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland View Post
    If Americans become required by law to buy health insurance, I hope all those undocumented immigrants will also be required to. Perhaps this would help ease the burden on the country's emergency rooms. But really, I do not see how all those immigrants that come to the United States to work for low wages are going to be able to afford to buy health insurance. I have a feeling the progressives are just want to use the new laws as a facade to tax the middle class to give to the poor.
    That's what Obama wants to do. Shrink the middle class, and create more dependent people, thereby giving more control to the federal government. Obama couldn't care less about how the so-called millionaires and billionaires are supposedly not paying their fair share - he is one of them.
    "Progressives are the architects of American decline, and progressivism is the ideology of American suicide." - Dinesh D'Souza

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