A Real Patriot Speaks Out

Even Eisenhower disagreed with you, and he was hardly a "civilian". Then you have the different anti-war Veterans groups. And you also have the training that you endure that basically teaches you the mentality to seek war. How else could an army fight if not for such a belief?

"In this hope, among the things we teach to the young are such truths as the transcendent value of the individual and the dignity of all people, the futility and stupidity of war, its destructiveness of life and its degradation of human values."

Address at the Opening Session of the White House Conference on Children and Youth, College Park, Maryland, 3/27/60

They said the same thing at Normandy Beach, Omaha Beach, Hamburger Hill, and virtually every battle ever fought where the enemy were entrenched, and killed our troops by the thousands..

Problem is you win nothing when you "kick their ass", you just waste lives, and money. How many trillions are going to be spent on disabled veterans? How many wives, and children, suffer due to the loss of their loved ones?

Pretty much your attitude is one of selfishness with little regard for the feelings of others, or the lives lost.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road. the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."

Address "The Chance for Peace" Delivered Before the American Society of Newspaper Editors, 4/16/53

 

In fact the US was being warned of Iraq's strength at the time. They had to deal with the present then, not history.

In 2011 Iraq was "sovereign and stable" until Obama pulled the troops and now, as you say, the ME is a mess. All the deaths since then can be attributed to B.H.Obama.

These short videos explain it all.

 

It's unfair and dishonest to blame the situation in the middle east on ANYONE except the World Class Idiot who LIED us into Iraq, then left that stupid war in order to attack Afghanistan, and start another unnecessary war. Neither war was necessary and George W Bush KNEW IT BEFORE HE ATTACKED THEM.

Once the bone-head Bush got us into the wars they expanded and resulted in the quagmire in which innocent lives are still being lost fourteen years later. The trillions of dollars the wars have cost the U.S., and millions of destroyed lives are ALL the fault of George W Bush and his administration. The blood is on his hands and the hands of all who supported his lunacy.

Iraq's military HAD NO STRENGTH at the time Bush ordered his stupid "shock and awe" attack (what a freaking joke. An expensive, and unnecessary joke). Iraq's military was a mess, it was falling apart — that's why we were able to destroy it so quickly. I repeat the Iraq war was NOT necessary.

 

Wow, this is too much wuss for one post.

As infantry cadence goes "Shoot em in the head, shoot em in the head, you have to REALOAD and shoot em again!", in regards to the enemy.

In your case, your cadence would go "Run away, run away, you have hide, and run some more!"

Lol. Civilians have no say in this

 

So using everything you just posted, you are saying the United States DESTROYED them and they collapsed as a nation. Thus the US won that war (easily I might add). Were you there? Maybe we met at some point

 

Reality is not your strong suit as it is not for most right wing partisans. "Run away" is the motto of the guy you voted for. Or are you claiming Eisenhower was not in the military?

But tell me soldier boy, if you were even in the military, why are so many Veterans committing suicide after returning from the 'war" in Iraq? Do you understand how hard it is for one to return to civilization after years of being brainwashed to kill? Do you understand the major cause of PTSD?

But, you go ahead and play your war games. I am sure it is all in your mind, what little is left, anyway. Just stay away from others.

 

I don't give two shits about Eisenhower.

Veterans have committed suicide since the beginning of time. Some can't hack it after war. But that's a risk you take when you VOLUNTEER to go shoot those goat ****ers over there.

left wing snowflakes just sit back and whine about the enemy, we take care of the problem

Hooah!

 

What problem have you "taken care of"? Is al Queda dead? Is Nazism dead? And just how did Iraq pose a threat to the US when the 911 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia? Do you understand the role of the military under the Constitution?

So much you ignore in your vain attempt to be a "man".

BTW, Veterans, and you seem to hold them in disdain as your cowardly leader held McCain in disdain, have never committed suicide in the numbers they are today.

 

There's nothing to ignore. Your point is "war is scary and we should never go to war!". My point is that we will always take the fight to our enemies. We destroyed our enemy Iraq, captured their country. That's a victory. Your whole argument is some temper tantrum about Trump. And what's your obsession with suicide? Some people VOLUNTEER to die for their country, and then later regret it.

 

Again with the ignorance, and lack of understanding. Even the Founding Fathers understood the ineffectiveness of war, and thus argued that we should not be come involved in foreign matters. This is something you lack the ability to understand. I do not go out looking for thieves to kill on the streets. I wait for them to enter my house, or that of a neighbor. People like you go far, and beyond, the borders of the country to find someone to kill, and you take pride in doing so.

Just how was Iraq our enemy? What threat did it pose to the US? You say it is so, yet cannot tell anyone how it is so.

Wrong as usual. It has to do with blindly following cowards who would never "volunteer" to fight for their country, just send others to do so.

Not an obsession, just an observation of another effect of war that you choose to ignore. The major cause of PTSD, as well as suicide, is the emotional pain caused by the actions of war. Then there is the realization of how ineffective ones actions were. War has never solved the problem, diplomacy has. War is an action that may, or may not, cause one to enter into diplomacy. Did WW1 end all wars as was declared at the time (The "War to End All Wars)? Did WW2 end Nazism (it exists in Germany, and the US, today)? Did the Korean Conflict end the Korean debate? Did Vietnam end Communism, or the spread of Communism? Did invading Iraq end al Queda? The answer is NO.

And that is not "victory", it is simply expanding the "justification" for more wars, more military buildup, and more good men dying for nothing save to enrich the few. And since WW2 we have had only 11 years in which we have not been at "war".

And to you anyone that opposes war is a "snowflake" a made up term for the mindless to repeat when they have nothing intellectually responsible to respond with.

 

Neither you or your children need to serve either.

 

Like most regressives, you have a selective memory.

idstuff.com


Democrat Quotes on Iraq
Weapons of Mass Destruction

Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people but on developing nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them."
-- President Bill Clinton (State of the Union Address), Jan. 27, 1998

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing. He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators.""Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States -- they're dictatorships, they're involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction -- you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries. I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country."
-- Sen. John Edwards (D, NC) Feb. 24, 2002

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power. We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." "
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed. We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Edward Kennedy (D, MA) Sep. 27, 2002

"Now let me be clear -- I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him."
-- State Senator Barack Obama (Democrat, Illinois) Oct. 2, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction."
-- Senator John Edwards (D, NC), Oct. 7, 2002

"We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction. It has refused to take those steps. That refusal constitutes a breach of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the armed conflict."
-- Sen. Harry Reid (D. NV) Oct. 9, 2002


"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"I come to this debate, Mr. Speaker, as one at the end of 10 years in office on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, where stopping the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction was one of my top priorities. I applaud the President on focusing on this issue and on taking the lead to disarm Saddam Hussein. ... Others have talked about this threat that is posed by Saddam Hussein. Yes, he has chemical weapons, he has biological weapons, he is trying to get nuclear weapons."
-- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D. CA) Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."
-- Ex President Bill Clinton, Jul. 22, 2003 (Interview with CNN Larry King)

I asked very direct questions of the top people in the CIA and people who'd served in the Clinton administration. And they said they believed that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or had the components of weapons or the ability to quickly make weapons of mass destruction. What we're worried about is an A-bomb in a Ryder truck in New York, in Washington and St. Louis. It cannot happen. We have to prevent it from happening.
-- Rep. Richard Gephardt (D, MT) Nov. 2, 2003
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm

 

That kind of destroys their argument doesn't it? We'd be in a nuclear war with Russia if crooked Hillary had won and the check to the Clinton Foundation bounced.

 

Ah yes, liberal extremism at its finest. "How weak was Iraq"? Weak enough to be man handled by the United States. To your question about "why or how" we got there is IRRELEVANT to a soldier who signs the dotted line to obey the orders of the officers appointed over him (I better add a "her" in here because you will probably call me a sexist. It's the liberal extremism in you). The Iraq war was a major victory from a WAR standpoint. Enemy was totaled out, residual MAA, and their leader was turned over TO THE PEOPLE.

The "cowards" such as Obama who give such orders, were given the power by the founding fathers. If you're trying to say that people like Obama are incredibly incompetent and put the troops in more danger, I absolutely agree. I would elect any General over the candidates we've had.

 

Great post, Old Trapper. Wish I could 'like' it ten times...then make it a Sticky.

 

There are many 'real' experts on the matter, and there is plenty of material available. It would help your case if you would study some of it. It would also help if you would quit trying to act as if you were the ONLY person ever to serve in the army.

This thread is supposed to be about statements made by the Draft Dodger In Chief, trump. Not about YOU, and not about me.

Again, the Iraqi military was NOT in the best shape in 2003.

 

Old Trapper, you seem to have a good grasp of this subject, and you can put it into words in a logical and coherent way. I think you would be the right person to start and lead another (NEW) thread: Why is the United Stated ALWAYS at war?

I've been around a long time, and it seem like I can't remember America being at peace for many long periods. After WWII, for a few years. But we're always getting involved in (sticking our nose into) any war on the planet, it seems.

I don't want to take this thread off subject, but it seems like the idea I've suggested is closely related and could result in a lively thread.
==
Finally, going to war with North Korea could, once again, get us stuck for years or decades in another messy war that spreads in ways we cannot foresee. It would be easy for the would-be president to get us into this war, but I doubt he has the brains to wage ANY war effectively. It's also becoming obvious he lacks either the common sense or intelligence to use diplomacy in order to avoid involving us in needless wars.

 

Nice argument. However, my post refers to the OP quoted by Oldguy or whatever his name was, which you replied to. I suggest you reread the conversation. Since you know absolutely nothing about Iraq, nor were you there, I take no offense to your hilarious comments.

 

Sorry liar, I never mentioned the weakness of the Iraq army. My question is, still remains, what was the justification for going to war in Iraq? You, being the fool you are, have no reason.

Now, it seems to be your position that patriotism is blind, and sheep are the true patriots as long as the obediently follow the orders, legal, or not, of the ones in command. But you have been a follower all of your life, and could never be a leader. In fact, I seriously doubt you have ever been in the military save for some video game. In fact, unless you are some form of sociopath with no empathy for others, you have never even shot another person, or killed one. In fact, you take pride in the reality that while 3-4,000 American troops were killed in Iraq around 1 Million Iraqi's, mostly women, and children, were killed.

http://www.omjp.org/ArtLarryDisobey.html

Trouble here is there is no proof Obama is a coward, yet you willingly voted for known, and proven cowards. As to voting for someone other then a coward, why did you not vote for Darrell Castle, a former Marine, or Evan McMullin former CIA operative?

Oh, the power given by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution was limited to defense of the country. You might try reading the Constitution.

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2007/07/01/the-constitution-and-the-powers-of-war/

 

Would help to explain why the world hates us:

http://rense.com/general46/atwar.htm

 

You have a reading problem, Warrior.

Yes yes yes, there you go with pathetic personal attacks because the snowflake left can't have a rational argument. It shows how weak and cowardly you are. It's what we expect from people who are to afraid to enlist (yes, you mentioned earlier you did, but we know you did not). The Victory in Iraq was a crushing one. We devastated their military and utterly destroyed any SAACOM they ever had. Something we haven't done since WW2. It's now being taught at West Point.

The coward Obama, who never served a day in his life, much like 99% of his followers, isn't really relevant anymore. Sure he gave the order to expand a drone program in order to kill civilians, but that doesn't make him "brave".

 

Wow. Can't believe that Montel Williams has become such a drama queen and took such a cheap shot at the President. Everyone knows that President Trump loves, honors, admires, and has a great sense of awe for our military. Maybe Williams is simply jealous. As if only he can care about our military. Weird, just weird.

 

Just because you were there doesn't mean you necessarily know anything behind the strategy or plans underlying that debacle. Were you one of the generals helping with plans? Did you have access to secret intelligence? I thought not...

 

You're making way too much sense for them Army Soldier. Fun to watch. Thanks and Carry on.

 

And still you cannot answer the question as to why we went into Iraq to begin with. All you can do is lie, lie, and then lie some more. And, as is the right wing partisan way, you ignored the articles I posted that prove you to be full of bull ****. As such, is your ignorance regarding the decimation of the Iraqi Army. The Iraqi military was disbanded as of May 23, 2003. Then on June 25, 2003, the Vinnell Corporation began to train the first nine battalions, or 9,000 recruits, of a 44,000 person-strong "New Iraqi Army." And on September 3, 2003, Coalition Provisional Authority Order Number 28 established the Iraqui Civil Defense Corp.

Now, when did we defeat al Queda?

Oh, BTW, over 90% of the right wing that supported going to war in Iraq were too cowardly to sign up. Cowards like Trumps sons, Romney's sons, and the list goes on.