Blood is on Obama/Democrat Hands - Fast and Furious

Lie #1: The Bush Administration had NOTHING to do with Fast and Furious.

Lie #2: There were no disguised agents in Fast and Furious. There were no tracking devices, cooperation with the Mexican Government, etc...

Lie #3: Nothing was alleged. There were 2 guns recovered from the scene of agent Bryan Terry's murder that were directly traceable to Barack Obama's Fast and Furious operation.

Lie #4: We already know through balistics that the gun that killed Bryan Terry was a Barack Obama Justice Department weapon given to the drug cartels.

Lie #5: There has never been any mention of "moles". There was no bugs on the weapons. There was no cooperation with the Mexican Government like what Bush did with "Wide Receiver".

Well you got a little bit of it right. Let's just say that "gun walking" never happened under Bush. They attempted to track the weapons... whereas under Obama they made no such attempt.

I give you credit on this point.

The first four however are not even close to reality.

 

[video=youtube;TFrApLNmjtk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFrApLNmjtk[/video]

 

Ignore what? That America hasn't had a moral politician since the 1800's?

 

I am firmly convinced that in that pot of documents being hidden there are some that speak to the political scheme to use this program to pass more gun control...Create the crisis and then do something odious to the Constitution to fix it.

 

sure we do.

[video=youtube;TFrApLNmjtk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFrApLNmjtk[/video]

 

There are six key accusations against the BATFE and DOJ made by BATFE whistleblowers and other sources within the Federal Government:

1. That BATFE instructed US gun dealers to proceed with questionable and illegal sales of firearms to suspected gunrunners, knowing that the guns were going to Mexican drug cartels.

2. That BATFE allowed, and even assisted in those guns crossing the US border into Mexico to “boost the numbers” of American civilian market firearms seized in Mexico, thereby providing the justification for more firearm restrictions on American citizens (particularly the upcoming blatantly unconstitutional UN Small Arms Treaty) and more power and money for BATFE.

3. That BATFE intentionally kept Mexican authorities in the dark about the operation, even over objections of their own agents.

4. That weapons that the BATFE let “walk” to Mexico were involved in the deaths of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE agent Jaime Zapata, as well as at least hundreds of Mexican citizens.

5. That at least since the shooting death of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry on 14 December, the Obama administration is engaged in a well coordinated cover-up of the facts behind what has come to be known as “the Gunwalker scandal”.

6. That at the highest level, the Obama administration either ordered, or directly approved the BATFE policy of promoting illegal weapons trafficking in order to create a significant retail gun smuggling reality that had not previously existed, and that this policy was intentionally implemented to support the deliberately fabricated lie that, “90% of Mexican drug cartel weapons come from US retail sources”, with the objective of justifying a planned unconstitutional gun control strategy against American citizens.

http://rinosandrats.com/2011/09/the-gunwalker-scandal-overview-timeline/

 

Bizzare right-wing paranoia ...

 

Because the program in 2006 did not involve the blundering that the new program in 2009 did.

 

Yeah but you didn't answer the question about ATF's involvement ... this is important because the ATF *lost track* of 2500 Fast & Furious gun-walking weapons, which not only have been traced to criminal activity in Mexico but was part of a shipment of weapons that killed Terry ...

Again, this may be part of the documents now sealed under executive privilege ... must kill neo-wingbats not *privy* to this ...

 

That is bull...the 450 weapons were actually LOST. A screw up that once revealed, caused the program to be shut down. The program was about actually tracking arms and making arrests. Fast and Furious made no pretense of tracking arms. ALL the weapons involved promptly disappeared into the underworld with no plan at all to track them until they began to appear at crime scenes and with no desire or plan to stop it UNTIL a whistle-blower wrote to Congress and revealed the program...

 

The Gunwalker Scandal Timeline

Early 2009: High ranking members of the administration launch a major campaign to pass a new “Assault Weapons Ban” in the US. Over and over again, they state that 90% of weapons recovered in Mexico from drug cartels come from U.S. retail gun shops. Almost immediately, the 90% figure is called into question. it becomes apparent that:

1) 90% of seized Mexican cartel guns submitted to the U.S. BATFE for tracing are found to have come from the US. HOWEVER: ONLY ABOUT ONE IN 20 GUNS RECOVERED IN MEXICO IS SUBMITTED FOR TRACING, since 19 of 20 are obviously fully automatic weapons, and/or otherwise without question, obviously came from other than US retail sources. Weapons clearly manufactured without serial numbers, for example, are neither manufactured in the US, nor imported for retail sale.

2) The administration was also including any firearm from the U.S. in their figures – including firearms originally legally sold to the Mexican military, and subsequently illegally diverted to, or stolen by the cartels. Information revealed by Wikileaks confirms that the State Department was well aware that large numbers of these weapons were ending up in the hands of the cartels – and that BATFE would discover this when they ran the traces. Counting these guns as coming from U.S. retail gun shops and gun shows was deceitful and flat out deliberately dishonest.

3) Diplomatic cables recently published by Wikileaks now also confirm that at the time the “90% lie” was being sold to the U.S. public, Hillary Clinton’s own State Department knew that the majority of weapons were actually coming from Central America, not the U.S. This would include the so-called “assault weapons” the administration was seeking to ban.

In short, there is now ample proof that one of the first things the new Obama administration did upon taking office was to broadcast DISINFORMATION that they absolutely knew was false to attempt to pass new gun control laws. The story does not end there. It appears that the administration may have reacted to the exposure of their lie by trying to make it come true.

Early 2009: The BATFE began the practice of ordering gun dealers to sell guns to known and suspected smugglers through straw buyers.

Early 2009 to late 2010: Instead of arresting the smugglers, BATFE agents are ordered to watch as the guns are smuggled into Mexico. Over and over, gun shop retailers begged for permission to stop the guns from going into Mexico – every time the order was the same – Stand down.

December 14th 2010, just after 11:00pm: US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry is killed in a shootout with Mexican drug cartel members 18 miles inside the Arizona border with an AK-47 known to have been smuggled into Mexico with the approval of BATFE.

December 28th 2010: The first of what quickly became a dozen whistle-blowing BATFE agents makes contact with gun rights media reporters David Codrea of National Gun Rights Examiner, and Mike Vanderboegh, of Sipsey Street Irregulars. This first agent states that the program’s true purpose was to increase the number of US guns recovered in Mexico in order to justify further gun control laws in the US and increase BATFE’s budget.

From this point forward, there is a steady stream of daily reports from investigative journalists David Codrea, and Mike Vanderboegh. Their account of how Project Gunwalker came into being and developed is chronicled in the Journalist’s Guide to Project Gunwalker (parts 1-5.)

The entire scandal may have never seen the light of day, had Codrea and Vanderboegh not first pressured and then arranged for Sen. Chuck Grassley’s staffers to contact their insider sources.

January 22, 2011: World Net Daily becomes the first news outlet outside the “gun rights” media to report the story.

Late January 2011: BATFE supervisors begin threatening whistle-blowers in an effort to kill the story.

January 30, 2011: The Mexican press begins reporting on the scandal. Over the next two months it becomes and remains front page news throughout the country. Mexican lawmakers are furious, and demand that the US BATFE Agents involved be extradited for trial in Mexico. The US Ambassador is forced to resign. In late March the Mexican Attorney General states that an investigation is underway and that he is willing to bring charges against US Officials.

January 30, 2011: Sen. Charles Grassley offers his protection to whistle-blowers. His staff begins investigating Gunwalker.

February 2, 2011: Fox News Online carries a story on the scandal.

February 2011: BATFE officials try to stonewall Sen. Grassley. He continues to demand answers. At this point, approximately 12 BATFE agents have come forward to aid Grassley’s investigation.

February 15, 2011: The Washington Times begins reporting on the story.

February 16, 2011: CBS News first contacts Vanderboegh and Codrea, who guide CBS through the details, and ultimately make recommendations to BATFE sources for interviews with CBS based on their own interviews. Their first report did not air until Feb. 23. By that time Vanderboegh and Codrea had already informed their own readers that BATFE management had reportedly allowed guns to “walk” across to Mexico, that gun stores had been instructed to allow suspected straw purchases to proceed, that walked guns were found at the Brian Terry murder scene, that the Mexican government was not informed of the operation, that ATF Attaché to Mexico, Darren Gil’s complaints and the protests of agents had been overruled, that Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer was allegedly involved in these decisions, and that ATF whistleblowers had testimony and documentary evidence to corroborate their allegations. In fact, the momentum to gain wider attention within BATFE was already underway.

February 23, 2011: Sharyl Attkisson of CBS news becomes the first mainstream broadcast news reporter to report the story. Attkisson continues to dig and report for the next 6 weeks, joined belatedly by Fox News. Two brave BATFE agents go on camera to confirm the story.

March 4, 2011: Rush Limbaugh discovers the story and shares it with his 20 million listeners.

March 16, 2011: Rep. Darrel Issa, Chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, opens his investigation on Gunwalker, announcing it in a live interview with Roger Hedgecock on Roger’s radio talk show. Issa calls on the BATFE to answer questions and produce documents about “gunwalking” operations where guns were allegedly allowed into Mexico in order to track drug cartels. Significantly, unlike Sen. Grassley’s prior investigation, Issa’s investigation carries subpoena power. Issa already has copies of many documents supplied by BATFE whistleblowers. Congressional hearings are now certain.

March 23, 2011: In an interview with the Mexican TV network Univision\fs20plain , Pres. Obama goes on record stating that neither he, nor Attorney General Eric Holder had knowledge of guns being smuggled into Mexico with the knowledge and aid of BATFE.

March 27, 2011: The highest ranking agent yet, former BATFE Attaché to Mexico, Darren Gil goes on camera. The now retired agent was head of BATFE operations in Mexico during the entire time the guns were going south. He describes how he protested the policy over and over. Gil states that this operation had been approved at the highest levels of both BATFE and the Justice Department.

April 1, 2011: BATFE refuses to provide requested information to Rep. Darrell Issa’s House Oversight Committee. Issa’s committee issues subpoenas to the office of BATFE Director Ken Melson.

April 9, 2011: It is revealed that the Phoenix BATFE office Special Assistant Agent in Charge, George Gillett, is cooperating with Senator Charles Grassley’s and Rep. Issa’s investigations into the scandal. The majority of the guns smuggled south with the help of BATFE came from the Phoenix office (BATFE’s Fast and Furious contingent of Project Gunrunner). CBS Report here.

April 20, 2011: Rep. Issa warns the acting head of BATFE that if he does not provide the requested information, he will be charged with contempt of congress.

April 26, 2001: The left wing website Huffington Post reports the story, calling it, “Obama’s Mexicogate”.

There is more on the time line for those interested on the time line:

http://rinosandrats.com/2011/09/the-gunwalker-scandal-overview-timeline/

 

Worse, they stopped all serious efforts to track the weapons...the plan seemed to be simply to flood Mexico with US guns...You have to ask why and I believe there is documentary evidence that speaks of new gun control schemes associated with this program.

 

Why do you attack the posters, instead of responding to the post, or offering some added opinion or information ?

And you can read post #65 above if you care for information relating to the question you asked. In fact, there are multiple pastes and links throughout this thread that go to your question. I am shocked that you missed them !!

 

Because the lefts party line and talking points this time are almost entirely made up data...If they junk the lies, they have no argument at all so they cling to the lies.

 

As I have said, their allegiance is to the Democrat Party, first and foremost. Its ahead of being an American, being ethical, honesty ... quite a list of things that should never be compromised.

 

Homie don't play with interns posing as the authority ...

 

I agree 100% completely...There can be no other reason for a program that existed only to run guns to Mexico that are sourced in the USA, gun running to Mexico without a single serious effort made to actually track the arms once bought illegally here.

 

I would have more <cough, hack> respect for them if them would just come out and just admit it!!

 

Can you think of a single reason why a federal agency would arrange for private dealers along the border to sell arms in transactions they knew to be illegal to criminals for the admitted purpose of getting those arms to Mexico but without any knowledge of Mexico and without any effort to track the guns once sold???

I contend the program was itself bizarre and the failure of some on the left to grasp this very simple issue is itself problematic...The sole result of this program was to flood Mexico drug cartells with guns from US gun dealers on the border...Why do that?

 

You are quick with a quip, but it isn't enough to make your stand. You are asked straight forward questions and you doge them, attack and roll. What is a waste is you are smart and choose to squander it on positions without foundation. If you had foundation your arguments would stand. I would like to hear your answer to the questions posed to you.

 

They do, but democrats dont care, according to them Lies improve the economy....

[video=youtube;3jzvMGuRXvs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jzvMGuRXvs[/video]

 

U.S. Government Used Taxpayer Funds to Buy, Sell Weapons During 'Fast and Furious,' Documents Show



Not only did U.S. officials approve, allow and assist in the sale of more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa cartel -- the federal government used taxpayer money to buy semi-automatic weapons, sold them to criminals and then watched as the guns disappeared.

This disclosure, revealed in documents obtained by Fox News, could undermine the Department of Justice's previous defense that Operation Fast and Furious was a "botched" operation where agents simply "lost track" of weapons as they were transferred from one illegal buyer to another. Instead, it heightens the culpability of the federal government as Mexico, according to sources, has opened two criminal investigations into the operation that flooded their country with illegal weapons.

Operation Fast and Furious began in October 2009. In it, federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives encouraged gun stores to sell weapons to an arms smuggling gang, then watched as the guns crossed the border and were used in crimes. Each month, the agency allowed hundreds of guns to go South, despite opposition from some agents.

All told, the gang spent more than $1.25 million for the illegal guns.

In June 2010, however, the ATF dramatically upped the ante, making the U.S. government the actual "seller" of guns.

According to documents obtained by Fox News, Agent John Dodson was ordered to buy six semi-automatic Draco pistols -- two of those were purchased at the Lone Wolf gun store in Peoria, Ariz. An unusual sale, Dodson was sent to the store with a letter of approval from David Voth, an ATF group supervisor.

Dodson then sold the weapons to known illegal buyers, while fellow agents watched from their cars nearby.

This was not a "buy-bust" or a sting operation, where police sell to a buyer and then arrest them immediately afterward. In this case, agents were "ordered" to let the sale go through and follow the weapons to a stash house.

According to sources directly involved in the case, Dodson felt strongly that the weapons should not be abandoned and the stash house should remain under 24-hour surveillance. However, Voth disagreed and ordered the surveillance team to return to the office. Dodson refused, and for six days in the desert heat kept the house under watch, defying direct orders from Voth.

A week later, a second vehicle showed up to transfer the weapons. Dodson called for an interdiction team to move in, make the arrest and seize the weapons. Voth refused and the guns disappeared with no surveillance.

According to a story posted Sunday on a website dedicated to covering Fast and Furious, Voth gave Dodson the assignment to "dirty him up," since Dodson had become the most vocal critic of the operation.

"I think Dodson demanded the letter from Voth to cover both himself and the FFL (Federal Firearm Licensee). He didn't want to be hung out to dry by Voth," a source told the website "Sipsey Street Irregulars."

Subsequent to this undercover operation, sources told Sipsey, "Dodson just about came apart all over them (his supervisors). In a 'screaming match' that was heard throughout the Phoenix office by many employees, Dodson yelled at Voth and Assistant Special Agent in Charge George Gillett, 'Why not just go direct and empty out the (ATF) arms room?" (to the cartels), or words to that effect.'

After the confrontation, ATF managers transferred Dodson to a more menial job. Months later, after the death of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, Dodson blew the whistle and went public about the federal government's gunrunning operation.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ast-and-furious-documents-show/#ixzz1ySRR133D

 

You know where Issa got his bizzarre conspiracy theory that Obama wants to take away your guns ... that was to lead to the Holder contempt ?

This guy ...

Mike Vanderboegh

 

Who broke the Clinton stain on his paint story...hint , it wasn't the MSM? Bloggers doing the job the MSM won't do.

 

I am sorry but I have heard BoBo speak on guns and the second amendment and his odd views about both. I have not a shade of a doubt Obama wants to grab guns...He just lacks the political power to do it so he/his minions cooked up this scheme to 'prove' the need for more gun control as a result of the 'flood' of US weapons to Mexico with no note at all that the 'flood' was arranged by the Obama ATF...