"Blowback Theory" enthusiasts. What Actions did the USA commit before 9/11/01?

Seemingly, no boundries of time or geography. Some French algerian, in your mind, is justified in his outrage over our first invasion of Iraq, solely because he is a Muslim and so to are the Iraqis, and we are not. Religion is the only relevant boundry with them.

 

Good explanation.

 

You seem to have convinced yourself of that, but I don't think anyone actually living there would buy that.

 

the main reason 9-11 happened is israel-palestine. they are sick of it and want to make americans aware of what goes on. when you read a place like this you can see their point, and why they will do it again, and again and again and again until they are listened to. if the palestinians had a state 9-11 wouldnt have happened and you would not be nearly so in peril of future attacks.

 

5 days after Clinton threatened to attack Iraq

http://articles.cnn.com/1998-02-17/...ity-american-people-freedom?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

Then a couple months before the 9/11 attack, in an Iraqi Newspaper

Eerily similiar to 1993

And a few weeks later in February of 93 an Iraqi bombmaker and Ramzi Youssef, traveling with Iraqi passports detonate a bomb in the basement of WTC, and flee to Iraq. Ramzi Youssef, the nephew of Khalid Muhammad who materminded the 9/11 attacks.
[/quote]

 

This is a great post.

Really, characterizing "Blowback theory" as victim-blaming is ridiculous. It's not "blaming the victim" to point out that American foreign policy, both past and present, helps spawn Islamists. America certainly didn't deserve to be bombed, but the lesson that must, must be learned here is that our actions lead to reactions, and those reactions are often very violent in nature. This is why total war will not work against Islamic radicals; every time you bomb someone's house, you are angering that person's friends, family, relatives...

 

why not just bomb terrorland ?

 

continued bankrolling of the illegal occupation of the west bank.

 

The quoted article strikes me as odd - I was not under the impression that Saddam was a particularly effective religious leader...

 

I cant help but notice how few Palestinians,Iraqis and Afghanis are members of Al qaeda and how many are from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Morrocco, Algeria, Qatar, UAE, Yemen etc.

And failing to remain on our side of the ocean is usually all that is neccessary to bring their wrath.

 

Blowback is no excuse for Islamo-fascism. Having said that, I'll give the argument.

The biggest instance of blowback is the relentless support of Israel by the USA at the direct expense of the Palestineans and at great insult to the Muslim Middle East and the rest of the Muslim world. The second biggest instance of blowback has been the willingness to cause wars in the region (the Iran/Iraq War being a forgotten but telling example). The third biggest instance of blowback is the relentless pursuit of culturalization and product placement in the Muslim world (especially in the more conservative Muslim nations). The fourth biggest instance of blowback has been the perception of some Muslim regimes as being essentially puppets of the West and of the USA in particular.

 

The one referring to 93 at the Rashid hotel?
http://www.papadoc.net/SeeingtheEvilInFrontofUs.html
Used to be able to link to a NY Times archive for this, but none of the old links are any good.
I wouldnt be surprised if Saddam didnt believe in any religion. Our invasion in 91 began his attempts to appear more Islamic.
He simply used the religion card, trying to gain support.

 

his number 2 was christian

 

OBL explicitly stated that the 9/11 attack was in response to the US military presence in Saudi Arabia, the enforcement of UN imposed sanctions on Iraq and US support of Isreal. Ultimately, there are those in the ME, then as now, who believe that US ME policy is so eggregious that violence against the US is warranted.

 

The third presidential candidate Ron Paul told the people that because of US 'imperialism'/involvement in the Middle East 9/11 happened. But e.g Russia had more involment in Islamic countries for decades (most violent in Afghanistan and in the Chechen Republic, Grozny) and had not such an extreme and big 9/11 type of terror (a big attack was in Grozny itself, on a compartement building with military)

 

Uh...

Grievances against Saudi Arabia

As bin Laden was born in Saudi Arabia and had a close relationship with the Saudi royal family it might seem strange for him to have such an acrimonious relationship with the government. However, his opposition to the Saudi government stems from his radical ideology. The Saudi decision to allow US troops into the country in 1990 to defend against a possible attack by Saddam Hussein upset bin Laden. From his point of view, "for the Muslim Saudi monarchy to invite non-Muslim American troops to fight against Muslim Iraqi soldiers was a serious violation of Islamic law" [12]
Bin Laden, in his 1996 fatwa (declaration) entitled "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places",[13] identified several grievances that he had about Saudi Arabia, the birthplace and holy land of Islam. Bin Laden said these grievances about Saudi Arabia:
“
The intimidation and harassment suffered by the leaders of the society, the scholars, heads of tribes, merchants, academic teachers and other eminent individuals;
The situation of the law within the country and the arbitrary declaration of what is Halal and Haram (lawful and unlawful) regardless of the Shari'ah as instituted by Allah;
The state of the press and the media which became a tool of truth-hiding and misinformation; the media carried out the plan of the enemy of idolising cult of certain personalities and spreading scandals among the believers to repel the people away from their religion, as Allah, the Exalted said: {surely- as for- those who love that scandal should circulate between the believers, they shall have a grievous chastisement in this world and in the here after} (An-Noor, 24:19).
Abuse and confiscation of human rights;
The financial and the economical situation of the country and the frightening future in the view of the enormous amount of debts and interest owed by the government; this is at the time when the wealth of the Ummah being wasted to satisfy personal desires of certain individuals!! while imposing more custom duties and taxes on the nation. (the prophet said about the woman who committed adultery: "She repented in such a way sufficient to bring forgiveness to a custom collector!!").
The miserable situation of the social services and infra-structure especially the water service and supply, the basic requirement of life.,
The state of the ill-trained and ill-prepared army and the impotence of its commander in chief despite the incredible amount of money that has been spent on the army. The gulf war clearly exposed the situation.,
Shari'a law was suspended and man made law was used instead.,
And as far as the foreign policy is concerned the report exposed not only how this policy has disregarded the Islamic issues and ignored the Muslims, but also how help and support were provided to the enemy against the Muslims; the cases of Gaza-Ariha and the communist in the south of Yemen are still fresh in the memory, and more can be said.[13][14]
”
Bin Laden wanted to overthrow the Saudi monarchy (and now other Middle East governments)[15] and establish an "Islamic Republic" according to Shari'a law (Islamic Holy Law), to "unite all Muslims and to establish a government which follows the rule of the Caliphs."[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliefs_and_ideology_of_Osama_bin_Laden#Grievances_against_Saudi_Arabia

Maybe you need to not needlessly attack people.

 

Pretty sure the Chechens have hit a school, and opera house, and have sparked war with Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Dagestan_(1999) = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War


Here's a timeline of events which includes many, many more items
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/01/24/timeline-major-terror-attacks-russia/

They are most certainly being hit by the Chechens because of their involvement with them, just as we're being hit by groups like AQ because of our involvement in the middle east. They didn't just wake up one day and decide they hate America for no reason. I think people need to realize this. I'd hardly call it blaming the victim, but if you whack a beehive with a bat you have to expect that you're going to get stung, to deny so would be stupid.

 

If some liberals decided to go bomb some Chinese people because they were upset with Chinese wages, and the Chinamen employed drones over our nation, indiscriminately bombing liberals and anyone near them, and started toppling state governments. I wonder if extremism would rise or fall in America?

This is about the response, not the before situation. We're not conquering radical Islam, we're infuriating it AND funding it. See no problem here? Think beyond your tunnel-vision of hatred.

 

Aversion therapy can be effective with the rabid islamist types.

 

We would find and capture the guilty for the chinese, as opposed to trying to justify their rage and provide them safe haven.

 

Let me ask you something Silicon. Let's say you live in Texas and have Texas pride. Now let's say that during the next 4 years of the Obama presidency, the Federal US government decided that it was time to turn Texas blue through overt and covert federal means and against the will of the hardcore Republicans in that country. Using a combination of infinite financial resources, covert operations from nearby states infitrating the Texas state government, and then finally funding and supplying armaments to allow Texas Democrats (however few there are) to carry out a full blown coup against the state government. How great would you feel about Obama's government and the US interventions in your local area? What extreme measures might you consider to see the US federal government as a threat to you, an enemy to you, or a destructive force needing "cleansing" from it's position of power.

Now, this will NOT happen to Texas over the next 4 years of Obama's term, but don't lie to yourself for a second and believe that these are not the type of tactics the US carried out for decades in countries where they wanted to instill leadership that would work with the US economically, ideologically, and diplomatically. The great irony is that the US helped overthrow more democracies with dictatorships than democracies that they actually helped form. It's actually a sad history. Nevertheless, it doesn't justify 9/11, but it explains the motives of people and their hatred towards our nation.

 

Well.. Russia has suffered all types of attacks which are possible... However... Russia does NOT have the same "skyscraper" buildings as the US has, and instead creates buildings which are very large complexes, and there is no restriction on the footprint base of the building and so it is not insanely tall and skinny as in the US. The tallest Russian structures are usually communications towers and some offices are here or there, but it's not a cultural practice for the offices to be all at the top of the skinny structures.

As such the 9/11 attack was a target of opportunity as much as a specific grievance against the US.

 

This isn't accurate. The idea is that the people who are most responsible for the failings of the middle east are using us as a escape goat, and that our feeding into this strategy by ignoring this fact is insane. This strategy is highly effective as the criticism as explained above is not without merit.

 

My friend. You sound as indoctrinated as a boy reciting his Bibble in front of class. Well. Your Bibble is all wrong.

Moreover... You have a RESPONSIBILITY to instill TRUTH onto subsequent generations for the purpose of developing social integrity. If NOBODY in the US Government is permitted to know TRUTH, the institution CANNOT be creating effective and accurate policy decisions. MOREOVER if members of the US Government operate on the premise of Pentagon propaganda, the members of the US Government CANNOT claim to be independent and somebody MUST acknowledge that they are MANIPULATED, intentionally, or unintentionally, by the false reality perpetrated by the Pentagon.

In REALITY, what you are saying IS NOT TRUE. It CANNOT BE TRUE. It is in fact A LIE.

The US Government HAS NOT BEEN A STRANGER TO SAUDI ARABIA. It was active in Arabia prior to Bin Laden, during, and after. The idea that Bin Laden became suddenly irate for the US helpful presence is NOT TRUE, and is ABSURD. The US Government developed the popular "ARAMCO" oil industry in Saudi Arabia WITH US OWNERSHIP AND CONTROL. Bin Laden had only SOME problem with this.

During this time few if any problems existed and Saudi Arabia moved to NATIONALIZE ARAMCO. **You did not like that** YOU went to Saudi Arabia and YOU restructured its leadership into a form that would not dispell US interests, and YOU acted like clockwork on these matters IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ARAMCO NATIONALIZATION.

YOU stirred up the hornets nest and ousted Bin Laden intent on waging jihad against the United States.

YOUR CLAIM THAT BIN LADEN OPPOSED US DEFENSE OF SAUDI ARABIA FROM IRAQ IS A BLATENT LIE AND PROPOGANDA PIECE. [1] Bin Laden was NOT suddenly angered by the US presence **which was already there**. -AND- [2] Bin Laden was NOT angered by the US defense of Saudi Arabia from Iraq.

You have perpetrated a GREAT LIE and NO US Congressman or citizen should be led to believe it! You have caused people to fall under the irrational belief that there was PURELY UNREASONABLE motive for the Bin Laden crimes, WHY? *BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD TO BELIEVE IT* "They hate our freedoms", you say. "They hate us because we wanted to do good for them". WELL IT IS A (*)(*)(*)(*)ING FRAUD.

YOU ARE BEING TOLD WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE, BECAUSE THAT BELIEF IS *P*R*O*P*A*G*A*N*D*A* THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM KNOWING THE REALITY THAT ****YOU COMMITTED QUESTIONABLY UNETHICAL CRIMES WHICH ACTUALLY LENT REAL MOTIVE TO THE BLOWBACK YOU SUFFERED FROM****

 

I didn't say that at all. What I said is that the OP cannot place artificial boundaries on a premise, just so he can make a point.

For example, I cannot say "Why is it that Americans invaded Afganistan and Iraq? I will only accept reasons from 9/12 onwards, what happened from 9/12 to justify these wars". Which is exactly what this BS OP did.

It is a fail of monumental proportions.