California Looks to Ban Diesel Trucks Weeks After Facing Electric Blackouts

Wrong again. The wear factors are significantly different between light duty and heavy duty. It typically centers around mileage. Light duty (cars) typically wear out around 200,000 miles. Then they get scrapped when they become too unreliable or simply sieze (happened to my 2001 Econoline which siezed on the freeway at 240,000 miles. We called a guy and they came out and took it for either scrap or saving whatever pieces could be saved). Engines in light duty wear by developing small cracks in the block and eventually they're just toast.

Heavy duty (being, you know- heavy duty) can take more wear and are usually built to be repaired and rebuilt. In fact, most manufacturers have what are called re-man centers where parts are rebuilt and resold. A heavy diesel engine will last typically anywhere from 350,000 to maybe 2,000,000 miles. While it's working it still has value.

And then you have to consider duty cycles or patterns of use. A garbage truck for instance, will have a daily duty cycle of maybe 15 to 20 miles a day (I'll let you struggle with the conversion to annual miles). Others dive a circle around the country every week or two for maybe easily 100,000 miles a year.

And then you have to figure the difference between a large corporate operation which will cycle out of a truck maybe every 5 years and independents who can keep thier investment up to keep it running as long as possible.

And then you have to figure in the different wieght classes of trucks. Class 6 typically lasts about 25 or 26 years while the Class 8's that you got from NTEA are about 14 years.

So you see, your stupid reliance on Googled "proof" really doesn't tell the whole story. But then again, I'm wagering you've never been closer than about 50 feet from a commercial vehicle of any type much less driven one or maybe even known anyone that has.

Was driving home Saturday and saw a really nice old Peterbilt cab-over which hasn't been favored on highway since maybe the mid-90s (restricted airflow through the truck doesn't do any favors to NOx reduction and America isn't Europe so long hoods don't matter as much in confined spaces in cities).

So you might want to tone down the nonsense that clearly others here can see through.

 

You first claimed 50 years.
And you already watered it down to 25.
Well well. Aint that something.
Why not cut that number in half again? Cmon champ. lol

But the thing is... you got no "proof" so far, just an opinion that's not backed up. I got prove from an organization that seems to know everything about it, when reading who they are and what they represent. And no anonymous posters opinion is going to convince anybody when there is source saying something else.

 

A) Did the genius of your random "reference" explain to you what an average is?
B) I don't need random references when I've worked in the field. Demanding a third party reference is a certain mark of intellectual dishonesty. It's the "appeal to experts" logical fallacy. Look it up some time and see if you can up your game.

 

You're not convincing anybody by demanding to basically blindly trust an "newly registered" anonymous poster on an iffy forum's claim to allegedly have experience in the field, but got nothing to back it's knowledge up while there is an association of claiming something else. That's textbook appeal to be the expert... a fallacy.

I also note you're not responding to my remark, that you first claimed trucks lasts half a contrary, but changed it to 25 years. To change your "expert opinion" that easy by that much rather proves your no expert at all / no experience in that field.

 

I'm not demanding anything. If you haven't noticed, most of the folks who have any experience at all in this business agree with me. Mostly because what I say lines up with their experience. I don't need to make up half-a**ed excuses sourced from the internet.

Besides, this thread is about California's new rules to try to ban diesel trucks in 12 years. All I can say to you is check back here in 4 years and see if your expert opinion has held up. I don't need to. I've seen this crap out of them many times- like when they tried to use OBD-II regulations to get rid of old "polluting" cars. They were slapped down pretty quick when old rich guys threatened that they could take their cherry '55 T-Birds when they pryed them out of their cold, dead hands.

Get back to me then. And in the meantime, good luck.

 

Sorry Buttercup it was YOUI who said the truck could change hands 7 times, I never said anything about 50 times or 7, just quoted YOUR post that a truck, in service since 2010, would change hands 7 times, LMAOROG

Got both degrees from Cal Poly SLO actually

 

Your dodge and BS noted

 

I highlighted yard trucks in my post so as not confuse the "enjennneers" in this topic ^^^^

That they ALSO was demand and hundreds in use today of yard trucks was all (with thousands more on order)

I've also shown there is a demand and market with ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY THOUSAND EV SEMI'S ON ORDER AS OF MARCH 2022

You stated there wouldn't be a market for them for 40 years, lol

 

Projection noted to other commentor, as if the guy saying a semi truck built in 2010 would change hands 7 times, lol

 

Where do you keep getting this BS?


The California Air Resources Board has issued a proposal to ban the sale of diesel trucks in the state starting in 2040.


What is the new California law for diesel trucks?
New models would be zero-emission in 2024, while diesel and gas drayage trucks must retire after 18 years to guarantee that they meet a zero-emission requirement by 2035. In addition, half of all new trucks purchased by state and local governments would be zero-emission in 2024, increasing to 100% by 2027.

 

"Tesla's first electric semi-truck will have a range of 500 miles and begin shipping this year, according to a tweet from Elon Musk, founder and CEO. Musk previously said that the model would be on roads in 2023, as well as Tesla's pickup truck, dubbed the Cybertruck. The projected arrival date for the Cybertruck has not changed."


More than 40 percent of U.S. imports flow through the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. An army of 14,000 short-haul truck drivers are tasked with hauling that cargo from the port complex to warehouses and rail yards around Southern Calfornia

• 60% of all long-dwell containers at the Port of Los Angeles are rail-bound.
• Container wait for rail is a little over 8 days for the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/08/rai...est-coast-ports-reaches-inflection-point.html

 

So let's take a moment to contemplate how incredibly stupid this entire paragraph is.

New models would be zero-emission (forgetting for a moment how dumb it is to consider EVs "zero-emissions" but for the liberals in the audience that's the only vehicles that can be counted when they say "zero-emissions") in 2024. If you could count you'd realize that's 15 months away.

And diesel and gas drayage trucks must retire after 18 years to guarantee that they meet a zero-emission requirement by 2035. Again, if you could count you'd realize that 2035 is now 12 years and 3 months from now. So how on earth does allowing current technology 18 years until they retire guarantee a zero-emission requirment by 12 years from now? The mind boggles.

And somewhere in there state and local government trucks would be electric in 4 years. Well, as thoroughly ridiculous as that is, I suppose I've got to allow that it's not absurd.

Look, keep trying to stoke your pathetic ego by ragging on me. I'll give you the same agreement I gave the other guy. Get back to me in 4 years and we'll see how this all worked out.

Otherwise, I'm out.

 

Weird, So since they aren't outlawing "drayage" trucks after 18 years of use? Isn't that 2040? NOT 2035?

You anti science types are funny, just like your "beliefs" that climate change is fake despite 97% of scientists, tax cuts will bring in more revenues, vaccines, evolution, MSM is fake news, etc

You guys and your conspiracy theories top it all off

Like almost everything CONServatives supported the past couple hundred years, probably 80%, you guys are on the wrong side of history

 

No, it is government with the power and control. Businesses, like you or I, must adapt to that power and control. A move away from petroleum is good and, eventually, inevitable. The problem is that is has to develop naturally. Government meddling just makes matters worse.

 

And how do you extract the hydrogen from water without using existing energy?

 

I was wondering when somebody would get to this fairly obvious question.Yeah, free hydrogen doesn't exist much at all normally. It's normally a part of- wait for it- hydrocarbons. You know, like gas or diesel. When we built demonstration trucks for hydrogen fuel, we'd have to include a handy reformer in the chassis. Which would remove the hydrogen from diesel to power the truck. Which required electricity from the alternator and battery.

And here's the kicker- hydrogen by itself only has about 10 percent of the energy content of the original diesel fuel. Which, of course, made the whole exercise a colossal waste of time.

Never could quite figure that one out.

 

It's going to rather really naturally. The entire thing is going to take effect after 18 YEARS, for.... NEW trucks.
So to break it down: The average truck last 15 years. So you can buy a new truck next year (2023), replace that one after 15 years, and keep on trucking for an other 15 year and only at that point, you end up living in 2053 having to decide to go for an electric vehicle or hydrogen, or something as long as it isn't specifically diesel.

I really can not view this as "government meddling". This is giving the entire industry a exceptionally slow heads up that we all know it's inevitable that there is an end. And it's better for all to give this really slow heads up so we all can make plans how to deal with it..... instead of trusting the industry will make those plans who do not know when that "inevitable" point is going to be at, and hoping the government will have the power lines there to fill that need. There are zero guarantees that this kind of "develop it naturally" is going to work out.

 

The sea contains a lot of water.
The wind blows harder without any obstacle.... such like the sea has.

So an obvious idea is building a wind farm off the coast, with a hydrogen factory next to it.
https://www.tno.nl/en/sustainable/c...ion/green-hydrogen-from-seawater-trial-plant/