CCW to the rescue myth

Argue all you want and use your "old age is 100% fatal" strawman all you want.

The fact is that just one category of "other errors in hospitals" kill 20,000 people a year in the US. That is almost twice the gun homicide rate for ALL homicides, to include justified, police shootings, etc.

You're 200% more likely to die having a procedure or operation done in a hospital than you are to be shot dead.

 

not most mass shootings...most shootings occur in inner city gang and drug hotspots

 

It works on an island like Oz. We have 2 borders where drugs regularly cross. So how do you propose we stop the guns? Dogs can be trained to sniff out drugs, they can't be trained to tell the difference between machine parts and gun parts. So please, use your vast knowledge of gun control to enlighten us how you would stop the smuggling of guns across The United States 5,525 miles of border with Canada and 1,989 miles with Mexico.

 

Oh look, you demean his post after he did exactly what was asked of him.

Just say good game, and admit defeat, he did win this one.

 

It still is a very true statement and not a strawman but an effort to put deaths into perspective

You cannot say "guns are fine because people get killed by other things too" because the statement is inherently nonsensical

But not twice the gun fatality rate - I can see through the attempts to obfuscate

What you have not proven is what they are classifying in those 20,000 deaths - delayed treatment because the patient could not find a hospital they could afford/could not afford the treatment? Was it because they could not start the IV on the patient minutes away from death because they could not find a vein? Was it because the patient met criteria for lysis with an MI and just happened to be unlucky enough to stroke out? Really if your hospitals are killing that many people you should be complaining to your government and insisting something be done

Hmmmm - and the reason why you are having the operation in the first place means there is no risk?? If you are 94 and having a bypass because without it you will definitely die but with it you might have a chance - then would that not skew those odds a little? Hate to tell you this but I have worked here for American owned health care facilities and for government owned ones and the 94 year old having a quad bypass is not unknown in the American ones - why? Because they get the money no matter what the outcome. The government facilities on the other hand the patient is told up front that the operation will in all likelihood not extend their life, would probably cause them to die in great discomfort and unable to spend their remaining time with their family

 

Yeah it is amazing that over 18 years they have only 12 examples and many of those are either off duty police/security/correctional facility workers or it is not a mass shooting

 

You stop them by making the laws relating to possession of an illegal firearm well and truly nasty We may be an island but out northern most point can be reached by sea kayak from Papua - and do not even talk about the amount of boats coming in from Indonesia

 

Bowerbird, you have never explained to us why you as a foreigner are simply obsessed with Americans owning firearms? Do you fear an invasion? This is not normal.

 

You ignore the question as we already know the answer.

 

No but I can say there are far worse problems than guns yet time after time legislators and people like you want to focus on the fantastic. Anti-gun legislators stand up there and decry the AR-15 as this super dangerous assault weapon, yet it and ALL other rifles combined kill a few hundred people a year.

The entire anti-gun position is based entirely on emotion and bull(*)(*)(*)(*) rhetoric. Even with your lauded gun grab mass killings continue at the same body count in Australia both before and after Port Arthur and you violent crime rates in all other categories rose as well. Congratulations.

Including suicides in firearm fatality rate is the anti-gunners obfuscation, not ours. Violent crime and suicide are two different problems. We have debunked again and again your efforts to say that gun prevalence has anything to do with suicide rates. Someone that wants to kill themselves will find a way.

Give reasons all you want as to why you're 200% more likely to die in a hospital all you want. All of those statistics are tied to medical ERRORS that were preventable, and death was a result of someones incompetence in the medical field.

 

the good news is that there are injection mould processes now in place that lowers the cost of traditional JHP ammo and makes self defense ammo more affordable.

The new ammo also damages greater areas. FMJ is fine for the range but we need more affordable self defense ammo.

 

Why would you want to make bigger holes in people?

That is just plain weird

 

Grabbers have a superstitious fear of the device...some folk are afraid of open spaces, some folk of heights, and grabbers of guns. it is a mental health issue, which is why they are of mixed mind about better mental health screening. Hits too close to home.

 

It didn't work with drugs.

 

I, nor do the super majority of gun owners want to make any hole in a person be it a big hole or a small hole.

But, if you are thrust into a situation where you are drawing upon a person, then you want rounds with greater lethality.

it's not like you see on TV where 1 round makes a person drop to the ground and stop or even die. If so, it's a lucky shot.

Also, the movies you see where they fling themselves through the air and are spot-on accurate with a 3 or 4 inch barrel are also fantasyland.

Even trained professionals like police, FBI etc are not very accurate under duress so a round which does the most damage is desirable.

Again, gun owners and law enforcement do not choose to use their weapon, someone else made that choice for them.

 

Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Likely U.S. Voters believe most politicians raise gun issues just to get elected rather than to address real problems.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DailyNewsletter

The problem lies with our society, not with guns. There was only one mass shooting in the decade I grew up in, the 1950's. There also were no gun laws, well one. One had to have a federal permit to own a machine gun. How do you explain no gun control laws and the the lack of mass shootings. The answer is something has happened to our society since them, but no one and I repeat no one is willing to delve deep into our society today to find the root cause or causes. It is much easier just to pass another gun control law and ignore the problems which create these mass shootings.

 

Why do you need a gun that powerful?

I could say that the entire pro-gun movement is based on dismissal of horrifying statistics and refusal to consider the life and safety of others

That and building strawmen of course - we never ever expected the crime rate to go down - because that is unrelated to guns
As for body counts - once again manipulation of statistics - what is it now including traffic accidents post 1996???

No we are including them because they are important, can be reduced and form a significant loss of life

Not all "errors" are preventable as I have shown - one person might think it an "error" not to perform major surgery on elderly frail patients while another thinks it is the best option

 

So it is all down to gun laws and not the increased availability of guns?

 

And when the shot goes through a bedroom wall into one of the family??

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So - the answer is - give up???

GOOOD plan - good plan - tell me when the social experiment in anarchy is over

 

I didn't say that. What I said the increase in mass shootings is due to the ills of our society. Something has changed immensely with our society between 1950, no gun laws and only one mass shooting to today with who knows how many mass shootings with tons and tons of gun laws.

We need to look, research, delve deep into our society to see what when wrong. To find the root causes. The Cause to all these mass shootings. Passing gun law after gun law after gun has not solved the problem. I heard on the news today that someone killed 5 people with a knife. No gun law would stop that. So what is wrong with our society that we increased the number of mass shootings from a decade in which only one was committed to a decade when we have 30 or 40 and counting?

What I am saying is that until we find the cause of these mass shootings or should I say mass killings. With guns, with knives, with bombs, with whatever. Find out what has changed for the worst about our society and correct it, these mass killings will stop. Just pass gun law after gun law, they will continue.

On the increase in guns, in 1959 51% of all households in America owned a gun or had guns in their household. Today that is down to 31%.

 

It's not like you see on TV. When someone gets shot on TV they clutch the wound, say "he got me" and fall down dead as a door nail on the floor. Nothing could be further from real life.

 

Really?

Only they haven't elsewhere when gun regulation has been tightened and enforced

It worked in the UK, Australia, New Zealand. Finland etc

 

Typical gun-grabber ignorance. An ar-15 is not powerful, in fact it is illegal to hunt deer or anything larger with the round. Most handgun calibers are larger.

Why do people need plastic surgery, nice cars, nice clothes, jobs that pay more than subsistance level pay, more than one pair of shoes, hobbies, or anything else?

It's none of your business why I, or anyone else has or wants one.

The loss of life to guns isn't even close to being in the top 10 reasons for death, it's only "horrifying" due to the media. The murders that are happening are, if I remember correctly, something like 76% are dead from guns during commission of a crime or drug related. From watching the news it also seems sharks are eating half the population.

Your much moaned about gun suicide baloney only accounts for less than half of the total suicides in the US, despite it being the least painful and most accessible form of suicide.

Yeah except that is the category of "preventable" medical errors.

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It's amazing that people who know nothing about a subject think they have anything to contribute to a discussion.

 

Check out 1950's, that was the decade I grew up in and compare them to other decades.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/mass-shootings-in-america-a-historical-review/5355990

Also in 1959 51% of all households in America had a gun or guns in it. Today that is down to 31%. Gun ownership as a percentage has gone down immensely if you consider a 20 point drop. Yet mass shootings has increased who knows how many fold. scroll down to page 3 or the 5th chart down. 31%. So yes you have been successful in taking guns away from law abiding citizens who obey the law. But not from those who do not give a tinkers darn about the law.

http://www.norc.org/PDFs/GSS Reports/GSS_Trends in Gun Ownership_US_1972-2014.pdf