Christians who ignore bad parts of Bible vs. Nazis who ignore bad parts of Mein Kampf

I appreciate that. Yes, more and more people need to agree with this. Sadly so few do. So few understand just how horrific the Bible/Qur'an are....most probably haven't even read them.

Mohammad supported sex slavery as well.

 

It's obvious by the questions that people have never opened the Bible for if they had they would know the elements of the fairy tale. Or else they want others to cite the bad parts for believers to read.

 

So you haven't read it either and compare these two?!
Now it's even more offensive!

 

Complain to your government about the torture and "intense interrogation" tactics then not to the peaceful family living next door who goes to church or the mosque. Don't ever compare few radicals with the rest. Or don't be offended if people compare you to Stalin under the claim that atheists cause more harm. If you don't approve of you being compared to Stalin, you mustn't compare family Smith or Johnson with some radical fundamentalist!

 

Now you want to quibble over an unknown percentage, and at the same time bring your statements and question down to the level of mere opinion (considered). Seems that you do not want to deal with tangible fact.

 

I'm a Modern Secular Humanist (Dennett/Dawkins/Harris/Hitchens, etc.), and the cornerstone of that belief is democracy, so of course that's miles away from Stalin and his staunch totalitarianism.....wildly different world views. Stalin made the STATE the religion. MSH makes, well, science/reason/critical-thinking the, well, "religion", if you will - or the main part of the belief system. Torture is not a part of MSH, but certainly was for Stalin, and for Jesus and pals, and for Mohammad.

Can we agree that the US gov't is, like Christianity and it's torture, wrong for advocating torture? Can we?

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That's not true.

 

Uh oh... we almost got a complete admission of MSH being a religion.... at any rate, it was not an outright denial of MSH being a religion.

 

Well isn't that special. If democracy is the cornerstone of your belief, then you will have to accept the fact that more people have faith than not.
And just because you disapprove of religion doesn't make it ok to destroy it.

Stalin's system was a state religion indeed, but he himself was an Atheist, just like you or me. Communism is the only form of government I know of which actively disapproved of the traditional religions and destroyed them. For example like the Chinese government did in Tibet. While you may approve of that, I do not. I disapprove of the destruction of anything cultural.

Hitchens did say a lot of smart things, but he was an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) while doing so. It was hard to listen to him because he was so pompous and looked down on everybody. Don't make the same mistake. You can advocate your belief without being offensive to everybody who has faith.

Because you have not read Mein Kampf, you're not comparing the two books based on the content. You're basically saying that Nazis and Christans are equal because you don't know what's inside Mein Kampf. That's why it's offensive in the first place, and why it's even more offensive because you haven't read it. You basically admit to just trying to call everybody who's Christian equal to Nazi.

This is insane. Radicals turned me away from faith, and people like you probably will turn me away from Atheism. I will have to invent a new word to exclude those who offend and just try to destroy.

 

Once again a rather sad atheist, who's strongest sense of identity as an atheist, comes from being an anti theist . Without the same dysfunctional pattern of engaging Christians in 'debate', there is a feeling of loss, confusion and lack of purpose in his or her identity as an atheist.

Most of us really don't need that constant attention and stimulation negative engagements like this OP supplies, as reaffirmation of our values and identity. We can be agnostic or atheist without constantly trying to prove it to ourselves or others. To put it simply someone doubts the length,girth or adequacy of his secular penis.

If you are inclined to pray, go for God's healing hand on his diseased organ ( his brain of course!)

If you are not, just move on with some sympathy and compassion.

 

Excellent post....

 

If one does not believe the bible is literally inerrant and primarily is concerned with the New Testament (the advent of Jesus and his teachings) then there is no more conflict in ignoring "bad parts" of the bible than in ignoring your family or friends when they
spout off ill tempered and out of character nonsense.

Does it make me a "bad" Christian if I don't embrace every word in the book? So be it.

 

many won't do it, though. while they may privately ignore it, they cannot bring themselves to admit the 'badness' of the bad bits. only the most fearful or the most brainwashed can defend bad.

the irony is that their own dogma demands they practice discernment in all things.

 

An overall belief system, YES....a super-natural based one, NO. So "religion" is not the proper wording, I think. And since MSHists change/improve the core "texts" (if you will), unlike Christians/Muslims/Jews/Hindus, MSH believe in their children's and grandchildren's ability more than those others do. Christians/Muslims/Jews/Hindus clearly don't believe in the greatness of their children enough to allow brilliant future generations to change/improve their religion's texts. MSH therefore can be argued to be better parents, in that one very important metric.

 

It means you have a faulty god, because 2 Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is inspired by God". I guess your god makes mistakes.....like Psalms 145:3, and 147:5 (which both say he makes NO mistakes....those two were mistakes!)

 

No, what's really sad is the 2.1 billion people who are such lousy parents that they give their kids a book that says to KILL those kids (in multiple places - so god really really means it!) if they happen to turn out gay like their very own "loving" god made them. Now THAT'S sad! But there is an obvious solution to this one specific problem, will they take it?

 

Modern Secular Humanists, at least the ones I'm aware of, don't advocate outlawing religion, as we believe in democracy. I'd condemn any who advocate outlawing a religion. The Bible/Qur'an however, clearly state that they are against democracy (and also do, in other places, positively advocate totalitarian political systems):

Democracy, no?
Luke 19:12-27
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.... But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Numbers 16:1-35
Now Korah...and Dathan and Abiram...and On...rose up before Moses, with...250 princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown: And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?...And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment...And it came to pass...that the ground clave asunder that was under them: And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and ... they, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.

Jeremiah 10:23
O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.



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The Qur'an also hates democracy:

18:26 "He maketh none to share in His government."

42:10 "And in whatsoever ye differ, the verdict therein belongeth to Allah."

 

That is your argument for basically saying all Christians are like Nazis? Are you serious?

What is your problem with religion anyhow? Why do people of faith have to be offended and how is that going to change them in their beliefs? Or are you just trying to offend?

 

No, there are many many other things that make Christians like Nazis, not just this, I assure you.

No, I'm not "just trying to offend", I'm trying to educate, as I love them. When I'm wrong, please correct me.

If they find the TRUTH offensive, then they probably don't believe in the truth in the first place. They believe in a talking donkey, talking snake (Jesus did), so I don't think "truth" is high on their list of priorities, of course....but FEAR is, as they let the fear of a bad "after-life" get in the way of seeing science and the truth.

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Will you condemn Christianity for advocating totalitarianism over democracy? I do.

 

I guess my point was lost on you. Regardless of what 2 Timothy 3:16 says I don't believe it to be true because there are too many instances of provably wrong or absurd scripture as examples. I take away from the bible what I know to be good and of value and leave the rest for well intentioned ideologues to try and justify.

My God is not faulty...his PR people are.

 

So then you of course don't believe the nonsense of a magical dead guy returning to save people over 2000 years after his death, then, correct?

 

How is calling people Nazis educating them? WTF?!? You have NOT read Mein Kampf just like you said, so you can't educate based on content! You made the connection prior with the pure objective to offend Christians! Otherwise it makes no sense. And yes it is offensive if you call people Nazis. Being from Central Europe and having lost millions of lives in WW2, I'm not sure there is a more offensive word.

Are you really so young and uneducated that you don't realize that? Could it really be that you're in the first or second year of college or something like that?

You assume that in Mein Kampf the idea of totalitarianism is advocated, but you don't know, because you haven't read it!

If you say "you believe in a talking snake" it is not offensive, because some Christians will say "Yes.", but if you say "you're just like Nazis" and "Jesus is like Hitler", then you're offending people, especially because you personally don't know, because you haven't read Mein Kampf!

Not only that, you're comparing contexts of books which are roughly 1800 years a part. I would have to assume that you've never lived in a country with a totalitarian regime in order to know what you're talking about. And you're advocating democracy not because you looked at the alternatives, but because that's what you grew up with. Maybe you are even advocating because Hitchens and who knows who else of your heroes did so as well.

The whole premise of this entire topic is just so full of mistakes I don't even know where to start. It would take me a hand full of posts just to give you a history lesson I think before you understand the premise of what I'm talking about it seems.

 

As the entire point of history books would be to review our past....ignoring it would defeat the purpose. The Bible(s) are most certainly not history books.

 

You're not making much sense, I'm afraid.
I don't have to, say, live in a country that currently has slavery (say) to understand that slavery is wrong. I don't have to have been raped to know that rape is wrong. I don't have to experience misogyny to know that it's wrong.
BTW, the Bible advocates all those 3 things, slavery, rape, and misogyny.....and of course I just know that's wrong.

PS of course I've looked at the alternatives to democracy, and they all suck.

 

I guess by "nonsense of magical dead guy" you want to lead me to a certain conclusion? I'm not sure I believe or disbelieve in an effort to induce people to follow a radical humanitarian teacher
along an enlightened path. I suppose in this case the ends may justify the means and the wish to want it to be so may cause people to make claims that may, or may not, be true.

In any event religion itself is a human endeavor and any trail that leads you to the only final goal worth having has real merit and value.

 

What the Bible/Qur'an are, first and foremost, are failed moral guide books.
Jesus was too stupid to condemn slavery (possibly the worst moral crime of all time.) A complete idiot.
(And they don't get history right, either, BTW!)