Costs are going down for healthcare because of Obamacare

What is it about the graph I presented in the OP that is so vague that you are unable to understand it?

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We'll, the first step is providing affordable health insurance and curbing the over payments to hospitals and pharmacies through that insurance.

That is why there is Obamacare. To make it affordable. I've looked at the plans. They are very reasonable.

 

Part of it would be blue for private, the other part of the blue is government/medicaid. They are working in combination to beat out the purple in the medical cost, which is exactly what it is doing. That's what Obamacare was set up to do.

 

You do understand that the PCEPI adjust to changes in consumption patterns, correct? Monthly changes in health care are decreasing, according to the PCEPI, because less medical services are being utilised.

They're not decreasing if you use the CPI-U. You should probably take the time to understand the data yourself.

And that is just going to happen on its own, I suppose?

 

Also, part of understanding the chart is understanding that PCEPI is that it tracks goods and services purchased by households and nonprofit sectors...

 

Exactly! That is my basic understanding of that. I am not in finance, but I do understand the basic premise of the chart that was shown as it relates to the goods and services. The chart that was presented was one made for understanding the basics relating to insurance cost versus medical costs. Beyond that, I'm too old to get into high tech graphs to penetrate each and every detail when it comes to consumer price indexes. That graph is for basic understanding or it would have never been posted.

 

okay, so again you're not understanding it.

1) we're looking at the Personal Consumption Expenditure Medical Price Index
2) Personal Consumption Expenditure does not measure government spending
3) Medical Price Index - what makes you think that a 'price' Index measures government spending? This article seems to have been created to dupe people who want to believe what you do.

PCE is what it sounds like: ----->PERSONAL<----- Consumption Expenditure. It does not measure government spending.

 

Yes, but less medical services could be the result of several different things going on at the same time couldn't they? Maybe some things bad, some good?

 

Not necessarily! I understand exactly what you are saying. Personal Consumptive Expenditure is a result of spending for goods and services. When I purchase Obamacare I am consuming a service called Obamacare. I am using that service. And in that graph I posted, it is measuring that service. If it is not, then what is it measuring? Where in the definition of Personal Consumptive Expenditure does it say that it does not include measures for government spending? I personally have not found any.

 

^_- ... so you don't think anyone is getting free care through any programs, or getting subsidies? Come on, dude....

 

https://www.bea.gov/national/pdf/NIPAhandbookch5.pdf It plainly says it is a result of government spending. However, I will concede I am no expert in all the ins and outs of everything PCEI does or doesn't do. That being said, we still have a graph that so far no one has disputed with their own, that debunks this government compiled data where prices for Obamacare have gone down. That is the bottom line.

 

No, it doesn't.

That's from your own link, dude. Your point has already been debunked. The graph doesn't need to be disputed because it can be 100% correct and irrefutable, and it does not prove your point. The PCE your cited only counts what individuals pay directly into their own plan/care.

 

Why would they? At the end of the day the goal of this law was to cut over payments. None of us really know exactly what those over payment amounts were. You also need to define what you mean as free. I think we need to have an understanding about that. I hear lots of talk about illegal immigrants getting free health care for example. I know many immigrants. I know none who have free health care.

 

You didn't read the definition. I'm sorry you didn't, because if that isn't what I read I will need to return to grade school and start over except I'm too damn old and tired. Good night. We'll battle tomorrow.

 

It's been a while since I've read into the Act (I'm getting old too, I'm not in my teens anymore ), but if I remember right some are entitled to free care, and Obamacarefacts.com concurs.

"Each American can research every available policy and choose the right one for them and their family. The cost of your health insurance through the marketplace depends on your income, so only those making less than 400% of the Federal poverty level will be able to use cost assistance to obtain free or low cost health insurance."

http://obamacarefacts.com/

come at me, man, come at me - my M1918 Browning will beat your fists any day!

But no, I did read it, and it only covers household expenditures. Because subsidies in the ACA market aren't funds given TO the buyers, but are paid directly to the sellers, it is not included. Also, as stated above, people do get free care.

 

I beg to differ. While it's true there are many who are ABLE to retire. They are doing so at a much higher rate and well before they usually would retire.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bruceja...-nurse-vacancies-soar-amid-obamacare-rollout/

A survey by health care provider staffing firm AMN Healthcare shows the vacancy rate for physicians at hospitals near 18 percent in 2013 while the nurse vacancy rate is 17 percent. That vacancy rate is more than three times what it was just four years ago when vacancies for nurses were just 5.5 percent in 2009 while vacancies for doctors were 10.7 percent.




“There is a war for talent,” Sean Gregory, president of Health First Holmes Regional Medical Center, a 400-bed hospital in Melbourne, Florida, said in an interview with Forbes.

The employment picture comes as the Affordable Care Act and pressures by insurance companies and employers to control costs creates a shift away from fee-for-service payment of doctors to approaches that emphasize more accountable care.

Most of these new models use primary care doctors as a quarterback of sorts to nurse practitioners and physician assistants who reach out to the patients, making sure they are taking their medications, eating properly and adhering to doctor’s orders. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants are also in short supply with hospital executives seeing a vacancy rate of 15 percent, according to the AMN Healthcare survey.

“We are actively hiring and building up cores of physician assistants and nurse practitioners,” Gregory said.


Notice what the new model is going to be. You don't get to see a doctor going into the future. You will get to see a physicians assistant or nurse practitioner because of several reasons.

#1: The doctors have FAR more patients because you've shoved another 30M people who can't really afford insurance onto LESS doctors than you had before.
#2: Those doctors are getting paid LESS for their services because Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare are going to reduce the amount of reimbursement that they pay out for your services.
#3: Those doctors actually have PAYING customers who will pay them fair market value for their services and the doctor will see that person before he sees you.

Isn't Obamacare wonderful?

 

Taxcutter says:
Where does that buck stop, Mr. Truman?

 

Thanks. There are many aspects to healthcare business models/laws that annoy me. Our only hospital used to be non-profit, but then a bunch of leaders couldn't resist the temptation of being able to collect taxes and the thing was sold to a for profit system with the sales price being put into a community trust fund. Since then, the quality of care has gone way down. They basically give up on old folks if there is no profit to be had on them, either forcing families to let them die or ship them off to a Long Term Acute Care Facility hours away if they cannot be in and out of the hospital in a week.

 

Once another republican gets back in office.

 

The shortage of doctors Is caused by age
Not Medicare or Medicaid or ACA
Many doctors are retiring or limiting their practice
According to the article
You post a link to
Here is a QUOTE
"The doctor shortage is worse than most people think," says Steven Berk, M.D., dean of the School of Medicine at Texas Tech University. "The population is getting older, so there's a greater need for primary care physicians. At the same time, physicians are getting older, too, and they're retiring earlier," Berk says. And graying doctors &#8212; nearly half the nation's 830,000 physicians are over age 50 &#8212; are seeing fewer patients than they did four years ago, a 2012 Physicians Foundation survey reported.

My primary Physician stopped taking new patients over 10 years ago
He now spends most of his time speculating in real estate
and collecting antiques
When I have an appointment with him there's usually no waiting
And I can get an appointment the same day I call

 

Already posted this, but I will again.

I beg to differ. While it's true there are many who are ABLE to retire. They are doing so at a much higher rate and well before they usually would retire.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejap...acare-rollout/

A survey by health care provider staffing firm AMN Healthcare shows the vacancy rate for physicians at hospitals near 18 percent in 2013 while the nurse vacancy rate is 17 percent. That vacancy rate is more than three times what it was just four years ago when vacancies for nurses were just 5.5 percent in 2009 while vacancies for doctors were 10.7 percent.




&#8220;There is a war for talent,&#8221; Sean Gregory, president of Health First Holmes Regional Medical Center, a 400-bed hospital in Melbourne, Florida, said in an interview with Forbes.

The employment picture comes as the Affordable Care Act and pressures by insurance companies and employers to control costs creates a shift away from fee-for-service payment of doctors to approaches that emphasize more accountable care.

Most of these new models use primary care doctors as a quarterback of sorts to nurse practitioners and physician assistants who reach out to the patients, making sure they are taking their medications, eating properly and adhering to doctor&#8217;s orders. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants are also in short supply with hospital executives seeing a vacancy rate of 15 percent, according to the AMN Healthcare survey.

&#8220;We are actively hiring and building up cores of physician assistants and nurse practitioners,&#8221; Gregory said.


Notice what the new model is going to be. You don't get to see a doctor going into the future. You will get to see a physicians assistant or nurse practitioner because of several reasons.

#1: The doctors have FAR more patients because you've shoved another 30M people who can't really afford insurance onto LESS doctors than you had before.
#2: Those doctors are getting paid LESS for their services because Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare are going to reduce the amount of reimbursement that they pay out for your services.
#3: Those doctors actually have PAYING customers who will pay them fair market value for their services and the doctor will see that person before he sees you.

Isn't Obamacare wonderful?

 

Yea, so you can go back to shedding 800,000 jobs a month again. That'll work!

 

Of course.

But the Right does not want that, because it doesn't play directly into their plan to control and keep people in their place. After all, the minions of this society deserve no one ounce of the privilege or benefits they themselves know.

The unwitting masses (poor White and White middle class people who vote "Republican") which have fueled their rise to power, will dwindle as the BS they are propagating is revealed. It will take time... but that is going to happen. Change is gonna' come... yes it will.

 

WOW
You start out AGREEING
That and then in the end you disagree

 

Yes and no. I realize Obamacare is a band aid to the overall problem, that is why I would prefer we have universal health care. But, in the meantime, Obamacare is helping millions who couldn't afford any care at all to getting affordable care now. For so long, the health care industry has only catered to a percentage of the population that have been able to participate. We are the only developed country who doesn't provide health care for all its citizens. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. We have only two choices for the citizenry of this country. One, we have private insurance where some can play healthy, or two, we have Obamacare/ or universal coverage where everyone can play healthy. Those are the two choices.

 

Isn't that the truth. Which ends up taking others out of the game anyway.