Democrats face rocky road ahead of midterms.

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Matthewthf, Aug 18, 2021.

  1. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    4,269
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Agreed.
     
  2. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    57,875
    Likes Received:
    31,830
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That all depends on what he does and how his criminal cases go (I don't think the civil cases will move the needle). The midterms are a little less than a year away. I'm not that fond of Democrats, but so long as the GOP remains the party of Trump, they are the biggest existential threat to our democracy.
     
  3. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,913
    Likes Received:
    3,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think it's possibly too late for Democrats to salvage the 2022 elections. But I still think we could return the Democratic party back to favor in the 2024 election.

    Biden-Harris just need to be more strategic in their actions. Things started out on a sour note, but there's still plenty of time to mend fences with the American people.

    And, if Republicans sweep into Congress in 2022 and things turn bad then ... ;)
     
  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,473
    Likes Received:
    18,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Biden-Trump stain of Afghanistan dishonor will never go away.
     
    Reality and Matthewthf like this.
  5. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,913
    Likes Received:
    3,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That was always going to happen. We bit off more than we could chew with Afghanistan. And, their government was too weak and our presence was the only thing keeping them going.

    The Taliban may have been our enemy, but not in the minds of the Afghans. We lost the battle of hearts and minds long ago.
     
  6. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,473
    Likes Received:
    18,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We have been in Germany for 76 years, in Korea for 71. The Afghans were doing just fine until we signaled we would abandon them. The first position to collapse was the White House.
     
    Reality likes this.
  7. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,913
    Likes Received:
    3,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The people of Afghanistan need to reject the Taliban's rule. We can't help them until they are ready to put strict, religious, Islamic rule and government into the dustbin of history.

    Many Afghans were flying Taliban flags (or am I thinking about the ISIS in Syria?). And the Taliban extended their influence for years before we "abandoned" Afghanistan.

    Often in the puppet governments we place into power, corruption is high and governing ability is low. (In fact, rumors have it that intelligence services were already working with the Taliban to get things done because they couldn't count on the official government.)
     
  8. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,473
    Likes Received:
    18,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have been to Afghanistan. The government was secure as long as people felt safe, and that depended on the American commitment. We betrayed their trust.
     
    Reality and Matthewthf like this.
  9. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,437
    Likes Received:
    2,645
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You guys need to focus in even harder on defeating Da Trumpstas in 2024. I mean he’s such a bad Orangeman that I think for you on the left you need full concentration on Orangeman bad 24/7/365 ….
    Until Nov. 2022. Please !
     
  10. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    57,875
    Likes Received:
    31,830
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Was there something you were actually trying to communicate here? Can you actually articulate any kind of observation or argument? It's times like this that I wish there was more to Trump politics than just copy/pasting bumper stickers.
     
  11. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,913
    Likes Received:
    3,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have been reading the news for years about Taliban successes and advancements. We lost long before Trump/Biden decided to withdraw from Afghanistan.
     
  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,473
    Likes Received:
    18,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That is simply false.
     
  13. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,913
    Likes Received:
    3,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I looked at the timeline of the Taliban insurgency (Taliban insurgency - Wikipedia)
    They took over the countryside. But, nowhere else, until the 2021 Taliban take-over of Afghanistan.
    But the Taliban were waiting for us to leave, and then they were going to take over Afghanistan. That was always going to happen.

    So, why did we leave Afghanistan? Because it's the graveyard of empires (and if the Taliban aren't careful it will be their graveyard as well). We can't stay there forever, and I don't want us to stay there either. We've already spent too much money staying there and maintaining a stalemate between the factions there. Even as back home America is in decline.
     
  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,473
    Likes Received:
    18,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We have been in Germany for 76 years, and in Korea for 71. After 9/11 smart guys in the Pentagon began referring to the "Long War," a multi-generational conflict. That is what we should have done, and will be sorry we didn't.
     
  15. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,473
    Likes Received:
    18,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Deleted.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  16. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,913
    Likes Received:
    3,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What makes you think that the "long war" will not take place? The torch has just been passed from the military to the CIA. And whatever happens will take place outside of the limelight.
     
  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,473
    Likes Received:
    18,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We have abandoned the field and made it much more difficult to carry on the fight. The CIA is a marvelously effective instrument, but it asks too much if we require that they substitute for our bigger tools.
    It is true that the most effective Afghan units were those affiliated with the CIA -- they remained disciplined and mission-focused all the way through our evacuation -- but they were never enough to carry the whole war.
     
  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    154,732
    Likes Received:
    39,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Especially increased wages caused by government competing with employers over the labor force with fiat money.
     
  19. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,566
    Likes Received:
    1,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Will anyone listen:
     
  20. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,566
    Likes Received:
    1,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't know anyone had beaten Obama in an election:
     
  21. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    94,819
    Likes Received:
    15,788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    25 House Democrats choose retirement and will not run in November.
     
  22. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    21,660
    Likes Received:
    7,728
    Trophy Points:
    113
    While this is true, we had 20 years there to set up and personally train LITERALLY from childhood if we wanted to, an entire generation of Afghan citizens who could've pushed back against the corrupt practices of previous governments and entanglements with terrorist groups. The shame extends farther than just to Biden and Trump, it extends to W and Obama as well.
     
  23. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,437
    Likes Received:
    2,645
    Trophy Points:
    113
    let’s hope another 25 join them
     
    Professor Peabody likes this.
  24. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    5,885
    Likes Received:
    5,781
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They are probably all going to work for Big Tech!
     
  25. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,473
    Likes Received:
    18,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Nope. Obama and GWB kept faith. Trump and Biden did not. Shortly after 9/11 the smartest guys in the Pentagon began using the term "Long War." Their vision was a multi-decade multi-generational struggle. We have been in Germany for 77 years. Take that as a starting point.
     

Share This Page