East vs West. Who is stronger - the SCO or NATO?

I actually had to Google SCO to find out who they even were. That's how much relevance they actually represent globally as I like to think I am a modestly well informed person.

So yeah...not impressed or concerned.

I would love for my country the US to leave NATO though. Shift all those billions towards economic grants and contracts for infrastructure building.. Sigh. Screw the military complex.

 

I personally or government of my country?
I personally had never any problem about that Crimea went to Russia and I told this often enough in this forum ... and therefor I saw in this for sure never any reason for sanctions.
Is the involvement of Russia in the Donbass a reason for sanctions? At least Yes, because to help and arm rebells in another country is not allowed ... and ironically you blame the West for the same thing if they do elsewhere.
But on the other hand I often enough mentioned Putins reaction on the last issue about 10 years ago when our idiots in charfe at this time did not respect the area of influence of Russia again. There Puting clearly told that if Ukraine becomes member of EU and NATO, then Crimea and Donbass becomes part of Russia. No one of our idiots took this serious and they laughted ... but for doid no laugh anymore.

As usual you call the complete Ukrainian governemnt since the coup during Maidan to be fascists ... and I never agreed to this! Yes, parts are Neo-Nazi, but any wondering about their hate against Russia? Ehm ... sorry, I forgot that you deny history facts like the femine caused by Stalin, because never happened for you etc. So any further discussion with you about this is useless!
And what marches of SS in the Baltics? Are you again coming with unimportant BS from WW-2 now or about what are you writing here?

Anyway ... things can also change when the depending circumstances change too... and they change with every day more and more drastic.
When the next time an allegated or real poison gas attack in Syria happens, I am pretty sure that the UK and France are not again on US side as last time with missile counter attack etc.

 

Of course, you do not have proofs. But as always.

 

1. Naturally, I'm talking about the government of Germany. Not about you personally. It is such a turn of speech.
2. The whole government of Ukraine is fascists. It is a fact. You can believe or not believe it, but it's a fact.
3. You once again write nonsense - "the famine caused by Stalin." Do not you understand that this is complete nonsense? Hunger was in the USSR caused by years of crop failure. Not Stalin. Once again, many years of crop failure was in the USSR. And by the way, not only in the USSR. In addition, during this period Britain, the United States, France and a number of other countries agreed to sell the technology and equipment necessary for the USSR only in exchange for grain. This is also a fact. They did not even take in payment gold and precious stones - only grain. This is not written in the Western media?
4.

Russia does not impose unilateral sanctions, but takes all issues to the UN platform. In doing so, provides a proof.
5. March of Legionnaires SS in the Baltic States 2018



You can enter the query in YouTube and see a lot of video about it. Moreover, with the participation of officials. With participation of deputies of parliament and members of the government.

 

OK ... I agree with my governemnts of today and in the past and those who will come in future at this and that topic, but disagree at others ... this is normal, isn't it?

I disagree with you here and say again, that only parts are. But this is an internal Ukrainian issue and problem, not an issue of Germany and one of Russia! If they change their yellow blue flag to one with swastika or other NS symbols or the government tells that Holocaust was a fairy tale etc., then I will take closer interest.

We had this topic often enough discussed and for me ... having a master degree in history ... it is proofed that Stalin used the famine to depress the Ukraine.
For you it is not ... and I see no sense to warm up this still and intense done discussion again, where our both opinions and points of view simply clash together and notmore as that! So let it as it is at this point ... I accept your opinion aboput and you accept my opinion about! OK?

If the sanctions are unliteral or not is a point of endless discussion and will bring no result.


[QUOTE}5. March of Legionnaires SS in the Baltic States 2018



You can enter the query in YouTube and see a lot of video about it. Moreover, with the participation of officials. With participation of deputies of parliament and members of the government.[/QUOTE]


Honestly?
I told you often enough that my relatives fought against the Nazis in WW-2 and were in parts also in concentration camps and some died there also.
But about this I make at least a shrug and not more. Let me explain why ...

We in Germany have the most strict laws against such things and these people would end in prison after this or minimum get a real hurting financial penalty by the court! Our laws are so strict, that it is even not allowed for model builders to build things with a swastika on it ... let's take the famous Ju-87 "Stuka "plane which had as all German WW-2 planes at the tail a swastika. This is not allowed to do in Germany and then to show in puplic, for example at an exposition. At worst your model can be confiscated and you have to pay a penalty too. I make modelling as hobby too, but I am not effected, because my area of interest is WW-1 ...

But such strict laws are not given in most other countries, even not in Russia. And so you can find for example Nazi idiots in the USA who make protests in full Nazi SA and SS uniforms, as well in the Baltics as in your video and in many other countries too. So this is why I make a shrug about ...

 

Item number 1, we closed.
2. Once again, the entire Ukrainian government, parliament and other branches of government are fascists (or at least their supporters). But I write this only in order to point out the fact - the EU (and Germany in particular) supports the actually fascist government of Ukraine. And this is the choice of the EU. I have no emotions on this issue. I can only emphasize the whole schizophrenia of European politics. On the one hand, the EU is against fascism, but on the other hand - the EU supports the fascist coup in Ukraine.
3. I just can not remain silent. You write "Stalin used hunger to push Ukraine." This is clearly contradicts common sense. Do you know where was the strongest hunger in the USSR? I'll tell you - The strongest hunger in the Soviet Socialist Republic was in the Volga and northern Kazakhstan. Not in the Ukraine. In Ukraine, there was the same famine as in the rest of the USSR.
4. About celebration of SS veterans and marches of SS veterans with the support and direct participation of governments (in other words - at the state level) in the Baltic countries - which are members of the EU.
Has any one of the leaders, for example, Germany, condemned this fact? Has anyone raised this issue in the EU Parliament or at other venues? (the only German politician who talks about this is Sarah Wagenkneht.) Nobody talks about it. And hypocritical politicians, for example, Germany They try not to notice this fact.

I'm talking about the state policy in this case of Germany. I do not hint at the fact that a German - is a fascist. On the contrary, I know many Germans who fought against the fascists. Killed in concentration camps. And I consider them great heroes. I myself can tell you about many such Germans.

For example:
Fritz Hans Werner Schmenkel (February 14, 1916 - February 22, 1944) - Hero of the Soviet Union (posthumously), German anti-fascist, Soviet partisan.
Robert Alexandrovich Klein (March 9, 1913 - January 30, 1990) - Hero of the Soviet Union, captain of the Red Army. His nationality is German.
Ivan Ivanovich Gromov, real name - Harvart (1917-2003) - Lieutenant-General of the Soviet Army, a participant in the Great Patriotic War, Hero of the Soviet Union (1945). His nationality is German....
And many others.

It was unfairly not to remember the Germans who fought the fascists. And in Russia they always remembered about them. Never in the USSR was not discrimination on the basis of nationality. Even during the war. You yourself see the Germans had the highest award of the USSR - "Hero of the Soviet Union". They served as officers and even generals of the Red Army. And always enjoyed the respect of all Russian people.
And I want to note - it was under Stalin. Orders on awarding the highest award of the USSR - "Hero of the Soviet Union" personally signed by Stalin. And he never even had the idea of discrimination based on nationality. He also signed an order on conferring the rank of General of the Red Army.
To be honest, I'm surprised - you have a degree in history and you do not know the real Stalin at all.

Maybe you should read his work and correspondence? For example, here. (maybe you will be interested because you are a historian) https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/index.htm

 

Oh, so you're an advocate of Washington's new Orwellian dictionary, where integrity means thievery and visa versa?

Walking an Orwellian dog

​

 

Proof of what? That he's a thief? Nah, he got all that cash and property and business from saving his salary as a politician.

At least your are consistently ridiculous so I guess ya got that going for ya.

 

Oh no. I think Trump is a crook who surrounds himself with crooks. But the difference is donnie can't rape the US treasury like Putin can his Russia treasury.

 

you need check on patent filled in 2010-2016 by china.

 

Here are the differences between the actions of Russia and the US:

1 - In Donbass the people are Russians, and Russians have an obligation to protect them from genocide - the same way Germany would if they were the Germans in Switzerland or another country. In Iraq, Syria, Serbia and Libya there were no Americans to protect. Instead we were the ones committing the genocide by bombing the citizens.

2 - The coup in Ukraine was illegal, and it was Americans who supported it and installed the new president. There is a recording where Nuland says: "Yats the man." In other words she decided that Yatsenuk should be the new president. In Syria, Serbia and Libya Washington wasn't helping the people free themselves from a foreign power. Instead we were were supporting foreign terrorists to overthrow the legitimate governments.

3 - The Russian government is not involved in the Donbass since it doesn't have a mandate from the UN and it would be illegal. The Russians who fight there are volunteers, and as attested by the OSCE guards at the border, they enter Ukraine unarmed.

All the tanks and arms the Donbas militia had came from the Ukrainian troops who surrendered because they refused to kill their own people. In Iraq, Syria, Serbia and Libya, the US entered with arms and without a mandate from the UN. Big difference!

The Kiev government is run by mafia families with connections to Washington. It is these families that pay and support the nationalists from Western Ukraine to control the people who hate their guts.

With the exception of the Polish, Hungarian and Romanian sections of Ukraine, the rest of Ukraine is divided in two. They are two separate cultures, and the Byzantine Catholics in the West who were under Poland, hate the Russians the same as they hated the Poles.. And like they did to the Poles, they want to exterminate and ethnically cleanse the Russians and take their lands.

This hatred they have has nothing to do with the famine or the Soviet Union, it goes back centuries. As for the famine, it is used as propaganda by the Western Ukrainians because they were not the ones that died. The ones who died are the Russian speaking people, and they are the same ones that the Western Ukrainian Nazis are killing and ethnically cleansing today.

There are almost 3 million Ukrainian refugees living in Russia today.

 

Vladimir Putin was known for his integrity when he was a bureaucrat, but you are right now that we are followers of Washington's New Orwellian Dictionary with its flexibility of terms.

An Orwellian Dog

Thievery = Integrity

Integrity = Thievery

Thievery = Integrity

Integrity = Thievery​

 

Man I need Sobo on here to counter with "Russia is just Germany's gas station!"

Love yah Sobo!

 

You never fail to amuse. Reality not being your strong point and all.

 

China is an outlaw country.

 

In other words, you think that can blame anyone for stealing without proof? For example, if someone calls you a thief, he does not need proof? Is not it?

 

Sobo can say anything. Even the "Germany Über Ales". But not too loud. Otherwise, the Russians can bring him to suicide. As well as they brought of herr Schicklgruber to suicide.

 

Not on the internet. People accuse people of things without proof all the time. Just go back and reread some of your posts.

 

You do not speak the truth. If only because I'm not accusing anyone. I always show only the facts.

 

How much does the President make? He owns hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate in Russia.

Does he have a money tree somewhere or does he use the Russian Treasury as his personal piggy bank?

Where did his money come from?

 

You have any proof? Or do you repeat what they write in the Western media?

 

De Nile is a river in africa.

Sorry you can't accept facts that place Putin squarely where he should be. I should think you'd be proud to support the biggest thief in modern history? Really his "score" has been estimated at nearly $200billion.

 

In other words, you have no evidence, but there are hallucinations in the inflamed brain..... And why 200 billion dollars? Why not 200 trillion? Or 200 quadrillion?

 

It says "The Russians are coming".

 

If this is true all SCO has to do is sit. Then pick up and rule the pieces.