East vs West. Who is stronger - the SCO or NATO?

Any adequate person understands that this is a banal PR. It does not change anything ... But if you look at what is happening, it's real.

On the west, Russia holds the most powerful group of troops. Only according to official data, the equivalent of ten divisions under the command of three army headquarters is concentrated in the space from the Caucasus to the Baltic, not including the groupings in the Crimea, airborne divisions and special operations forces, as well as two (Baltic and Black Sea) fleets, the Caspian flotilla, the revived Mediterranean a squadron and a grouping in Syria. I think I will not be mistaken if I say that a lot of Russia's combat potential is concentrated in the Western strategic direction. And the Ministry of Defense continues to rapidly build up its strength in this direction. At the same time, it should be taken into account that in recent years the Russian army has acquired the highest mobility, that is, the group can be quickly strengthened additionally by transferring forces and resources from other regions.
The deployment of such a grouping of troops, all the more fully staffed by on the model wartime , supplying them with the latest weapons systems, building modern military campuses and landfills from scratch is extremely expensive. Accordingly, if such costly measures are taken, then from this side Russia is experiencing a real military danger.

Our "respected partners" from NATO do not exaggerate too much when they say that not a single European army of NATO, individually, or all of them together is able to withstand the Armed Forces of Russia. Prevent the transfer of troops from the United States, closing, in a special period, access to convoys to European Atlantic ports with the help of the VCS and the fleet Russia, is also not a problem for Russia.
Place a contingent in Europe much larger than the current US can not. Not even because it is expensive, some countries are willing to pay extra for the deployment of US troops on their territory, but due to the difficulties of securing a large grouping (and without the supply of everything necessary, the army is incapacitated).
In general, although not for a week, but for a couple of months and not without problems and losses, but the existing combat potential, concentrated by Russia in the west, is enough to reach the Atlantic.
By 2025-2030, without increasing numerically, but only due to the completion of rearmament and the development of new control systems and principles of warfare, the Russian grouping in the West should increase its potential twice (and possibly more). And we still do not take into account the nuclear arsenal.
We are in a situation where the world we are familiar with can collapse like a house of cards all over the world.
Germany is a militarily weak country, but its importance in the issue of control over Europe is understood not only in Russia, but also in the United States, which in the event of the European crisis will prove to be an objective opponent of Moscow in the struggle for the right to determine the future of the continent. That is, Russia needs to break through and provide a flank corridor to Germany. At the same time, there should be enough reserves to support, in case of need, mediation efforts to preserve German-French unity. It will be necessary to act quickly, preventing the geopolitical enemy immediately in three strategic directions (the main one is the West and providing the flanking South-West and North-West). The strength and qualitative superiority of the group must ensure, on the one hand, the suppression of the resistance of various illegal and semi-legal formations, on the other hand, in the bud, suppress any idea of the possibility of official resistance from all state structures and, finally, not allow the US to involve its already deployed troops in Europe , because of the senselessness of such a campaign.

In this case, we are no talking about aggression, but on uniting, preventing Europe from slipping into a long bloody crisis, destroying the economy and the population in huge once-flourishing territories. Moreover, the very presence and increasing weight of Russians grouping is a good argument,

And yet we can not ignore the fact that the considerable honor of the European elites has tainted itself with crimes (both military and crimes against humanity). Being people deceitful, they are able not to believe in any guarantees of security from the Russians and make an attempt to resist against Russia. Therefore, the grouping should be really able to solve the tasks in the shortest possible time. Efficiency, including low resource consumption - of any operation directly depends on its brevity. The shorter the blitzkrieg, the more effective it is, the lower the losses and costs.

Therefore, a funny American landing in the Baltic has no significance. In case of conflict, they are consumables.

 

... expendables.

 

Putinka would not dare move if American troops were in Lithuania. He will be paralyzed. All that is needed is a few hundred and Lithuania knows this. We should put a few in Estonia and Latvia, too. Russians have no business in any of these nations.

 

No is not it. You sound exactly like a Trump defender.

Vladdie is the head of the largest kleptocracy in history. A fact you and your paymasters may not like, but that too is reality.

 

Hmm, but Russia lost first Chechen war against small and light armored Chechen force, if we compare it with Vjetkong and Vjetmin. What could it mean?

And i think that you have a little understanding about reasons of why Roman empire collapsed in West. But anyway, it got nothing common with NATO today.

 

1. no
2. You know anything about Stalin? I have the impression that all the information about Stalin you received from the Russophobic media.

Briefly about the real Stalin.

During the time of the Stalin leadership, for 30 years, the agrarian, poor, foreign-dependent country has turned into a powerful military-industrial power on a world scale, the center of a new socialist civilization. The poor and illiterate population of tsarist Russia has become one of the most literate and most educated nations in the world. The political and economic literacy of the workers and peasants by the beginning of the 1950s was not only inferior, but surpassed the level of education of workers and peasants of any developed country at that time. The population of the Soviet Union increased by 41 million people.
Under Stalin, more than 5,500 largest industrial facilities were built, including DneproGES, Uralmash, KhTW, GAZ, ZIS, plants in Magnitogorsk, Chelyabinsk, Norilsk, Stalingrad.
Already in 1947, the industrial potential of the USSR was completely restored, and in 1950 it grew more than twofold in relation to the pre-war 1940. None of the countries affected by the war had even reached the pre-war level by this time, despite the powerful financial injections from the United States.
Prices for basic food products, for 5 post-war years in the USSR, fell more than 2 times, while in the largest capitalist countries these prices increased, and in some even 2 or more times.
In 1947 the USSR, the first after the war from the states of our planet, abolished the card system. And since 1948, every year - until 1954 - reduced prices for food and consumer goods. Child mortality in 1950 decreased compared to 1940 more than 2 times. The number of doctors increased by 1.5 times. The number of scientific institutions increased by 40%. The number of university students increased by 50%. Etc.
Thus, in the USSR, during one five-year period - from 1946 to 1950 - in the conditions of a hard military-political confrontation with the richest capitalist power of the world without any external assistance, at least three socio-economic tasks were solved: 1) restored National economy; 2) sustainable growth in the living standards of the population; 3) an economic breakthrough in the future.
But the scum and bugger Khrushchev destroyed all economic achievements.

3.4. - Khrushchev and Gorbachev the scum and bugger

 

And where is Chechnya now? ... And where is Vietnam now?

You can continue to believe in the invincibility of NATO. This is your business .... Ostriches for example hide their heads in the sand.

 

But you can not prove anything. Is not it? With the same success you can be blamed for Kennedy's murder, for example. Or in participating in an attack on the skyscrapers of New York. How will this differ from your statements?

 

We can compare the communal payments in Somalia and US too, i bet with this kind of metodic we will come to conclusion, than Somalia got higher living standards than most of the World including Russia.

Yes, great free medicine of Russia. Only thing that i don't understand, why in Russia man in AVG lives 12.2 years less than in US, and women 5.3 years less? I bet is because of great medicine or Russia and higher living standards? As for childbirth deaths, that in US its 5.8, in Russia 6.9 per 1000 children. US citizens can be ready jealous...

And great education system of Russia, in which teacher can get 200 $ per month for his job. I bet he is highly motivated...

And its like that in all indicators. You can tell yourself anything, the facts are shoving completely different situation. And looking at all this it's hardly for me to understand why people, who live in ****, instead of thinking, how i can do my country better, telling others the stories,often the fake stories, about poor life in other countries.

 

Why i should answer to question, which is not related to the topic we discuss?

Why? I spoke a lot with russian citizens. It means that i cant tell, what is on their minds? As i understand language i can reed ad watch TV in their language, And it's not so, that i spent 1/2 h to read something, im common with russian speaking media from the 90ties.

I have been in Spain and Horvatia for example, but i cant tell a lot about internal problems of this countries. To tell it you have to read and speak to people, and to do that you have to know the language.

I did not noticed, that Americans on mass scale are worried about debt of russian citizens or about poor life in Russia, i bet they don't give a dem about it.

Dissatisfaction with what and how Russia can help with this?

Where did you have been in Russia? Moscow? Want to see what is happening outside capital?

And there is statistic, which are not in your favor....

Than i can understand, where is the free trade aid from USSR here, about which you talked? USSR put missiles un island and were blocked, that's all.

 

Maybe you forgot, but in Russia only in 2005 the civil war ended. In addition, quite recently, according to historical standards, there has been a collapse of the socio-political order. And you want that after that the standard of living in the country is equal to the standard of living in your country?... You do not really have a high opinion of your country.

Now you are comparing the US and Somalia - is this an occasion for pride for you? Of course this comparison is more profitable for you than comparing with Liechtenstein or Switzerland.

Comparing the standard of living in absolute figures is not correct. You need to compare by purchasing power parity. And in this case even China is ahead of you. Because in this case, China is the No. 1 economy in the world.

 

The question was not, where is Chechnya or Vietnam now. And i cant understand, whats so funny here...

Where did i talked about invincibility of NATO? I just turned attention, that people from Russia in their dreams got higher living standards than US and can beat NATO with one hand. And its because of post imperial syndrome and instant brainwash from media.

 

1. It's funny that you write nonsense about Chechnya. The reality is that the Hasavyurt agreements are an agreement on a truce in Chechnya. If you understand more - it was a break. Associated with the political situation. Alcoholic Yeltsin was looking for any excuse to raise his rating. But as soon as the armistice was broken, the fighting in Chechnya resumed and now it is clear how the Chechen war ended.

Vietnam.

January 27, 1973 in Paris, was signed the agreement "On the cessation of war and the restoration of peace in Vietnam." According to the document, US troops, who lost 58 thousand people since 1965, recognized the victory of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and left the country.

2.
Nobody ever says that the standard of living in Russia is higher than in the US. It is nonsense. It's about the trend. In Russia, the standard of living is growing. The economy of Russia is growing, GDP is growing, the external debt is minimal ... etc. And all economists give a good forecast for the future. The US - many problems in the economy. The debt is more and more, real jobs left for southeast Asia .... Trump even has to introduce a policy of protectionism in the economy.
Once again, see the trends.

 

And Who is responsible for this collapse of socio-political order? Why it happened in Russia? But let me guess, responsible for the collapse of socio-political order are.... America/judomasons/Soros/Illuminati and so on.

Yeh, and by the way, before this collapse soviet people lived better than Americans?

Pride? Bought Somalia and US are foreign countries for me. I just noticed, that your argument "lets compare the communal payments" in case of standard of living, is not logical.

You can compare Russia an US in which way you want, i bet in all parameters Russia lost heavily. Thats why i cant understand, why you don't worry about your own country?

 

Recognized the victory? You never read this document and you had been foolish again. Nothing new..

Russian troops left Chechnya after agreements, US left SVjetnam. Where is the difference?

Realy? Than what are you doing here quite a while?

And again... In 2017 growth of US GDP was 2.3%, growth of Russia GDP was 1.5%... And this is in situation, when economy of Russia is 1/10 of the economy of US. Great success...

Somalia too got minimal external debt(who will lend them?). It's the mark of success?

 

Blame Khrushchev and his followers, the same obscenities Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Pay attention - I even called the names of the guilty.

Yes. I believe that people lived better in the USSR than in the USA. At least no one was afraid to lose their jobs and die under the fence. People in the USSR were happy that for sure.
In reality, the state provided people with free housing, education (the USSR was considered the most reading country in the world), medicine ... and so on. a peasant could become a general, a scientist, an actor ... anyone. Managing the country at last. Social lifts worked.
My experience from youth. I come to Leningrad having three rubles. I am sure that I will find work within an hour. And it happened. I go to the house-building plant to get a job, a place to live (a room in a hostel), and an advance payment of wages. All this in one hour. Two years later, I get a two-room apartment in a new house. I receive free of charge.

Again. I always said that the standard of living in the US is higher than the standard of living in Russia. I'm talking about the trend. For example, 10 years ago, Russia was on the verge of collapse, now Russia spits on any sanctions. See trends. Russia is increasing its influence in the world, the US is losing its influence in the world. In other words, Russia is going up, the US is falling down. Soon the levels of life will be equalized.

 

Do you have problems understanding the writing? Where is Chechnya now? ... And where is Vietnam now?

So what? If the United States doubles the number of dog hairdressers and creates a few more economic bubbles - US GDP can increase even more. Only the sense of this is not. Even the author of the term GDP, Simon Kuznets, called this indicator one-time and not relevant to the real economy.

Example.

What is GDP? GDP is the value of all goods and services produced in the country.

You produce cars. And buy parts from suppliers. If you buy spare parts through several middlemen, the cost of spare parts will be higher. Hence the price of your car will be higher. Hence GDP - will be higher.
But if you buy parts from the manufacturer, the cost of spare parts will be lower. Hence the price of your car will be lower. Hence GDP - will be lower.

This is one of the important indicators.
But apparently you think that the external debt, the largest in the history of mankind, the trade deficit and the budget deficit (constantly increasing) is an indicator of a successful economy. Is not it?

 

Davos
Russia faces 6 more years of stagnation under Putin

by Alanna Petroff @AlannaPetroff January 22, 2018: 10:37 AM ET
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/22/news/economy/russia-putin-economy-election-oil/index.html

Russia wants its vodka back

Russian President Vladimir Putin looks set to win re-election in March, extending his stay in the Kremlin to 2024.
For Russia's economy, that likely means six more years of anemic growth.


"Expect no significant changes in terms of economic reforms or foreign policy," said Lilit Gevorgyan, an economist at IHS Markit. "Putin's election platform -- if there is any -- is stability or more precisely, no change."


Russia's economy has been on the mend since Western sanctions and crashing oil prices sent it spiraling into a deep recession in 2015. The ruble is stable, inflation is near a record low and unemployment has dropped.

But the former KGB agent's re-election would mean that Moscow is unlikely to tackle reforms needed for the economy to reach its full potential.


In the 18 years that Putin has been in charge, Russia has failed to break its addiction to oil and diversify its economy. It is the world's largest oil producer -- although America is catching up fast -- and the industry is dominated by state-owned firms.

"The problem is that there's no economic dynamism," said Anders Aslund, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. "This is not an environment in which you can expect innovation or entrepreneurship."

The International Monetary Fund predicts annual economic growth will average just 1.5% over the next five years. If oil prices fall again, growth will be even weaker.

-snip-

and so it goes

 

Even Trump calls the American media a fake.

 

Evidence of his real estate holdings thru a web of corporations that ultimately he or one of his cronies totally controls?

Keep trying, Einstein was correct.

 

How about Russian mass media?

https://m.newsru.com/russia/18jun2018/pensia_people.html

Your retirees will be paying for Crimea, Georgia, Syria and eastern Ukraine.
Oh, and read what real people say about the quality of Russian healthcare, unemployment and living on average Russian salary.
That’s a stark contrast from what you were saying on this board.
Russian economy is crap, healthcare is deadly, average salary is poverty, and you spend all this time here on this board trying to convince everyone that Russia is standing up on its feet, economy is growing and everything is just peachy. Why would you rise against the regime and try to do something productive to improve the quality of life for an average Russian instead of spend so much time on this board worrying about US debt and economy.

 

And why does americans did not have someone like Hruschov or Jelcin? And how russian citizens acted, when these people where at the power? Why these people got the power in country?

fairytale about great life in Russia is ower, now comes fairytale about the great life in USSR...
I lived in USSR too, may parents and grandparents lived. People in USSR lived poor life in situation of constant deficit of customer goods. Non of US citizens who did not live in USSR can't even imagine something like this.

Yeh, common rhetoric from the Russian TV channels, where they are winning US every day. Only thing, that it has little common with reality...

GDP of Russia in 2008 was 3426,7 billion dollars in prices of 2011. At the end of 2016 GDP was 3581,3 billion. It increase by 4.5% at 8 years, and it continues to grow only by 1.5%. You know how this trend is called? Stagnation.

 

It was funny. Really funny.

But what happens in the US economy?

1. Following the China and the European Union, India also announced the introduction of duties (sanctions) against the United States. Trump may not have known, but they too have metallurgical plants, all of a sudden. So I did not understand: who isolates whom?

2. Trump met with Eun. And the result of the year of the frightening maneuvers and stories "as USA crush the North Korea" Was not unconditional surrender, but "We talked sweetly, but nothing has been agreed." If a small North Korea is not afraid of show off the "world gendarme", then we can safely say that the gendarme has broken down.

3. The American Hardwood Export Council (AHEC) confirmed that the US surpassed Russia in exporting timber to China. And where are all the cries of "Save the forests of Alaska from the Chinese!"?
In fact, the United States is fighting for Chinese markets for gas, timber and soy. The US is a lawn mower country ? А sawmill country and an "agrarian superpower" ? That is the raw-material colony of China?

4. Fresh data on the graduates of a number of American and Canadian universities show that there are almost no Anglo-Saxon names on the lists, but full of Chinese and Arabic.

5. A recent report from the US Treasury shows that Russia in April of this year has dropped half its US Treasury stock, cutting it from $ 96.1 billion to $ 48.7 billion.
Now it is clear why Trump urgently yelled "Crimea is Russia"? If Russia and the second half will reset - he not only Crimea, but Ukraine with Poland and the Baltic States will be merged. If these failed states, of course, someone in general need.

6. Fearing that after Russia, and others will begin to merge treasure, the Fed raised the base rate by 0.25%, in order to increase the attractiveness of US debt securities.
When raise interest on securities? That's right, when their reliability falls. That the Chinese rating agencies recently fixed and lowered the US sovereign rating.

7. What is the retirement age in the US?

Let's sum up: the USA now.

- a backward country with a slaughtered (shattered) economy and industry,

- with huge number of beggars living on grocery cards in tents right in the middle of cities,

- a raw-material colony with huge debts,

- with bad automobile and antediluvian railways,

- with the epidemic of drug addiction,

- on the verge of a civil war,

- scientifically and technologically backward,

- an outcast country in international isolation

Or am I wrong in something?

 

The coup d'état. In the USSR there was only one person - innocently repressed. This is Beria. Which was shot by Khrushchev.
Khrushchev seized power through intrigues, murders and forgery. It's the same Gorbachev. Yeltsin generally shot people from tanks. Even has shot from tanks in parliament. But no hypocritical bitch from Human Rights or the Western governments showed any indignation over the coup d'état.

Your grandfather and grandmother received housing in the USSR for free. Your grandfather and grandmother studied in the USSR for free. They were also treated free of charge in the USSR. They did not know what unemployment was. They rested in the resorts of the USSR for a nominal fee, because the main fee was paid by the company where they worked .... and much more. But you are talking about the "bloody USSR" and "poor Russians".

I already wrote to you about the fake GDP index.

 

SCO is an economic partnership unlike NATO a military alliance, big difference