Health care....Down Under

He IS NOT GETTING FREE THINGS he said there were two charges levied against all in the atrea to finance his costs and those of others.Private health insurance is FOR PROFIT health insurance!Have you ever visited the Home Office of any health insurer??They are usually multi acre'd beautifully landscaped campus like with hundreds of employees ,no expense is spared.If we apply a nominal tax as we do for MEDICARE across the entire working population and all current Social Security recipients we should be able to provide GOOD FULL COVERAGE health care to all of our nations people bearing in mind only a tiny percentage are ever being treated at one time,most are generally healthy.

 

You keep repeating the same thing without ever addressing the fact that Private health care relies on public services being available 24/7 without them contributing to the cost of providing 24/7 emergency care. Who do you think pays for this 24/7 emergency care! Why do you want to force everyone to have private health care which would become considerably more expensive as those subsidies would have to go

 

Kind of got that stuck in your throat. Too bad it has to be explained to you.
A portion of services such as the fire department sending help, emt's etc, are paid by city and county governments. IN PART, at best. Because they bill the user- in our area, a base charge of $800 plus $15 a mile. Thus a trip to a hospital by ambulance with an EMT and a driver costs about a grand, takes about an hour of their time. The insurance pays that charge. The balance of costs (if any) are paid by taxes on my property- and that is a rather hefty amount as well. Now bear in mind that I pay that charge regardless of whether or not I use the service, which I never have- so I've been paying that for 50 years and they still will bill me the grand if I ever need it. Tell me again how somebody else would be paying for such a service if I needed it?

That serves all but draws most of it's financial part from a few.... and I'm sure you think that is righteous and just. I don't.

Do you think for a moment that under some government bill that makes us all irresponsible for ourselves, those local taxes and charges are going to disappear?
Surely, you aren't that naive.
And how on earth do you think that justifies placing all health care in the same situation?

IF any system is better than private insurance, then all they have to do is open it up, and private insurance will collapse if it can't compete. Or, perhaps not. Put it to the test, not the mandate, and you have an accurate way to know if it is Better or just Bull-sh*t.

 

Putting aside the fact that VAT is UK not Australia and all the other rubbish included let us just look at the figures

Now keep in mind that is a TOTAL cost - it includes visits to the GP, subsidised medication, Dental for those on a health care card, pathology radiology AND epidemiology - which is more than just counting numbers of people sick, it includes public awareness, tracking of sexually transmitted and other diseases as well as health promotion, aged care, rehabilitation etc etc etc In other words all those things your taxes are currently paying for but you do not have included in your health care plan.

I went online to try to find what an American might pay in health insurance - WHAT A NIGHTMARE!!

To start with it varied from over $400/month in Alaska to $200 a month elsewhere(remembering that is just your cost over and above what you pay for the public and government run health care that includes the CDC). Looks cheaper than here UNTIL I read the fine print - it gets more expensive with age - up to three times as expensive.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-cost-of-health-insurance

So, given all of that - who has cheaper health care?

https://onthewards.org/the-inside-s...-of-the-us-and-australian-healthcare-systems/

 

Actually you don’t

Who pays for the CDC??

Who pays for heatth promotion?

Who pays for the government funded health care recipients?

Who pays for the health inspectors checking restruants?

 

You're still not getting it! That, quote, "trip to a hospital by ambulance with an EMT and a driver costs about a grand, takes about an hour of their time" costs the tax payers a lot more than that because that service has to be available whether it's used or not. And as for your comment about property tax, yes, that is additional costs not paid for by private health care companies which is my point. And this topic is not about you, it is about your claim that those with private health care are not getting "free things" unless you think that all those people pay property tax

Hence the comparison of costs per person of premiums for private health care with public health care cost per capita is not a valid comparison ie the sub-topic of this thread.

 

The U.S. spends $10,224 per capita on health care. That's far more than other countries with universal coverage. In fact, it's the most expensive in the world while scoring 25th - 30th in infant mortality and longevity.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...-spend-half-much-per-person-health-u-s-spends

 

You got your figures completely wrong and you can't admit it. Pathetic, if totally expected.

No one is being 'duped'. We understand that health care costs, and we pay through taxation and insurance. Like every other civilised nation we pay a considerably smaller % of our GDP than your nation for comparable or better outcomes. If you want to put up some ideological defence or engage in the traditional excuseathon/deflection marathon that is the reflexive reaction of US conservatives then go ahead. It gives the rest of us a good chuckle. You could do better, but you refuse to.

We have a better system, you have misrepresentation & excuses. Sucks to be you.

 

He got his figures completely wrong anyway and he won't admit it. he couldn't be bothered doing the research. it is sort of a pattern with him. Just another troll I'm afraid.

 

NO argument from me

 

Yes, he is always doing that and he will eventually put you on his ignore list for pointing his constant errors out.

 

You're paying for it in higher taxes

http://sendmoneyaustralia.com/tax-rates-in-australia-comparison-to-usa-uk/

 

You don't know what your talking about. If my figures are wrong......prove it.

 

In the US healthcare is a commodity. You buy it from the providers. To help with the staggering cost you get insurance to pay for the commodity. In Australia healthcare is seen as a service provided to all and it's financed by government using taxes. It's just like national defence, a service for our protection. Comparisons are less than helpful unless this basic dichotomy is acknowledged.

 

So now I need to do your research for you. Sorry, not my job to do the work of people who don't do the reading.

Because I am charitable, however, I'll give you a hint. The figure you quoted isn't government spending on healthcare. Had you known the first thing about the topic or done a bit more digging you might have worked that out. Took me one google search. Now, run along and do your reading.

 

Waiting time (in median days) from specialist’s assessment to treatment for hip and knee replacement surgeries for Australia and Canada

In Canada the wait time for Ortho surgery was 38 weeks in 2016. Your wait times are worse! When I needed a hip in Jan 2017, from first GP visit Jan 10th to operating table by Mar 19th. If I lived in Canada I would have had to wait till November. I was back to work the last week of May.

 

I wonder how that would work out if your monthly health care premium was included in your tax bill like it is here and in the UK?

You are comparing cost of apples with the cost of the whole apple pie

 

You called my figures wrong but refuse to prove that they are, now that sounds like trolling to me.

 

Who ever said there's a "magical person" paying all the bills?

In countries with universal healthcare, everyone pays.

False premise.

"Take others property" is a subjective construct.

I, for example, could ask what if there were a billion people in the world who agreed that each would contribute to a healthcare system for everyone?

In universal healthcare systems each person does take responsibility for themselves.

Again, personal anecdotes may support your personal point of view, but don't prove that your point of view is in fact universally correct.

 

I have given you all the clues you need. If you are too lazy to do the work that is hardly my problem. I know I'm right. Now run along and put in a bit of effort.

 

I pay $64 a month through my employer with out the GST's and 2% of income Medicare tax. When I needed a hip in Jan 2017, from first GP visit Jan 10th to operating table by Mar 19th. If I lived in Canada I would have had to wait till November. I was back to work the last week of May. Did you ever consider we like our system and that's why changing it gets no traction? The folks that work hard everyday are rewarded employer sponsored health care as part of our compensation packages. The folks that want to sit home, smoke weed and watch Cheech and Chong movies are rewarded commensurate with what they put in.

 

If you know your right then it will be easy for you to prove it.............all hat no cattle.

 

Its OK, no one who is familiar with you actually expects you to put in the effort. Easier to spend a day or two trolling than risk finding out you got it wrong. We both know you did, you just can't admit it.

I'll leave you to it.

 

If you can't prove your point, then it tells everyone it was so much hot gas.

 

So, where are the statistics for the USA? Do you know why you cannot find any? Because none are kept. Yes you can get that service if you are paying top premium but what about the guy who isn’t?? Plus we, and Canada have a triage system. If your hip replacement is not that urgent - and it will not affect your work or life then you might have to wait but if it is urgent - then it is done straight away. What often happens is that people are put on a waiting list early because we can always cancel

AND if you do not like the system you CAN go private. Now I wonder what the waiting lists are like in America?