Huge Russian military exercise in September

I've already said that Ukraine (I don't know about the rest of it, but Ukraine was the main target) was a recognized hotbed of organized crime, political corruption, and teetering on the brink of anarchy. Okay, so for it to be cleaned up, you use the word 'aggression' and I use 'strong leadership', but it's still only 'a little local difficulty' so far as global real politik is concerned; but you (the US, not you personally ) traverse the entire planet thinking you're saving these different places from themselves, when the fact is you're making them worse than they already were - surely you don't deny that?? Oh and to repeat my question to you - When was the last time we in the west had a strong leader?

 

I'm just trying to establish what an invasion looks like so that I can apply it properly to the situation in Crimea. There's no point weighing in my opinion if I'm not qualified.

 

The word I heard used was insurgents.

 

If you rate that in the case of Ukraine and Georgia this way, then I have to ask you, why did the West see it exactly in the similar case of the former Yugoslavia otherwise and acted accordingly?
Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia were part of the State of Yugoslavia and voted for independence and started the same way a rebellion ... which we supported in the West!
But when the Donbass and Crimea, both part of Ukraine, but where 70 to 80% of population are Russians voted for independence and started a rebellion which is here backed by Russia, then it is the same at least, but we say of course that Russia is evil.

This is really hypocritical ...

Apart from the fact that there are countless interviews and public statements by all sorts of Western politicians, ministers, chancellors, prime ministers and presidents, who are seeking Ukraine's membership in NATO and also in the EU etc. ....

May any state in Central America and the Caribbean alone decide to ... join forces with China, Iran, North Korea or Russia and also military bases with all sorts of conventional or nuclear weapon systems WITHOUT THAT THE USA WILL CRAZY HERE AND RUN DIRCETLY AMOK WHEN IT HAPPENS IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN DOOR?

I have really and serious, as well reasond doubts ... because there are enough examples which proof that the USA will become crazy!

A proverb in Germany says: "Who laughs last laughs best!" ... so we will see who laughs last at least!

The fact is that Putin already clearly threatened it in 2009 during the crisis of that time, but nobody took it seriously ... and that was a mistake!
The fact is that Russia was not given the necessary respect and was simply overriding Russia's views and will ... which is fatal!
The fact is that in the West you did things to Russia that you do not like yourself, but you expect Russia to put up with it ... which is stupid!
The fact is that in the West we have a lot of our own guilt for behaving in a badly deteriorated relationship with Russia and not everything is evil Putin ... which is very ignorant!

 

You got it Toyota! Exactly so.

Just as we decided we wanted Afghanistan and Iraq on the other side of the globe, so we invaded.

The difference, of course, is that the people in Crimea already speak Russian, as those 2 countries go way back together, they have a cultural history and relationship.

That cannot be said about us and Afghanistan or Iraq or Vietnam or Libya. Is that so difficult to grasp?

 

To add is still:

The Crimea was conquered militarily by Tsar Peter the Great some 350 years ago ... the Crimea was a more or less independent territory in the Ottoman Empire before. Since then, the Crimea belonged to Russia... and since then the port of Sevastopol is one of the 3 most important military ports of Russia and the base of the Black Sea Fleet!

After the Second World War, the USSR had considerable difficulties with the reconstruction and the order in the country regarding the destruction and so on. Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev had made a reform in the 1950's where the Crimea was administratively administered by Kiev = Ukraine because it did not work well from far away Moscow.
After the end of the USSR, the Crimea went to Ukraine ... also because the constantly drunk Yeltcin in Russia against the military whom he mistrusted hard, did not insist on the Crimea and was pleased with a kind of leasing for Sevastopol and the port ... though 70% of the population in the Crimea are Russians and not Ukrainians.

 

DJ Trump

since 2017​

 

The rationale for acting was ethnic cleansing. We have to decide if that justifies action.

Ethnicity in a region is by itself no justification for dismembering a nation state. Would we accept states like California and Texas voting to join Mexico when they almost inevitably become majority Latino?

Pols' bloviating aside, no invitation has been made.

They are sovereign states and should have the right of self-determination.

You want crazy? What will the U.S. do if Canada signs a free trade deal with China if Trump kicks NAFTA to the curb.

What "crisis" are you talking about?

Given the "necessary respect?" What in the hell is that?

 

Russia flexing muscles is nothing new and mostly ignored by pretty much everyone anymore. The state of its military and technology as well as incessant bluster with no verifiable or hard evidence of advancement impresses no one and the propaganda has primarily failed on everyone but its own people. Putin is simply trying to impress Russians and it obviously works.

We should expect another super missile or Tsunami torpedo story shortly.

 

As I said in another post, ethnicity alone does not justify an outsider stepping into the affairs of a sovereign nation state or a region of a nation taking apart the country.

The U.S. had every right to take out the government of Afghanistan because of 9-11 and the protection the Afgan government gave the attackers.

 

The Russians aren't entitled to a do-over. They annexed part of a sovereign state.

 

Your logic fails spectacularly, as 911 was an inside job and everybody knows it. Karzai and the others are just puppets, not unlike the Vichy government.

 

"Inside job?" Says who?

Afghan leaders may be puppets, but that isn't proof the Taliban weren't helping the perps.

 

Destroyer of illusions is probably drafting a copy of his weekly status 6 (or whatever the number is) thread as we speak.

 

US expansion to where? The US has increased in size onlly by purchasing territories from other countries. China, and Russia, are physically expanding their territories.

There are many who feel the same as you, all over Europe, but they're often denied a voice.

Understood, and vicey versey.

 

I would have said that too; I even excused as a brain-fart his disastrous decision to invade Syria 6 months ago, but then yesterday I heard he wants to waste Assad.

 

Maybe happens the same way in Ukraine?
When I see taht real Nazi scum is a part of the Ukrainian Forces who fights in Donbass, then it is more as possible!
It's also about the oppression of other ethnic groups and does not have to be a genocide!

Take a look how Panama as state was suddenly there...

One example...

https://www.nato.int/cps/ie/natohq/topics_49212.htm

Agreed that it shoud be so ... but the uS practice is another one... look on Cuba or Grenada. And think about if Panama who own the important canal will decide suddenly to raise the price for passages of US Navy ships for 300% or forbid them to use the canal ... for what they have the right to do as sovereign state. US will invade there out of own strategic interests!

Trump was alsways, is and will be always a jerk and dumbass as the complete world aside his brain washed followers knows. Canada can do what they want - point!

The current one was not the first one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Russia–Ukraine_gas_dispute

You expect the US to be treated with respect in the world, but others deserve this respect ... no matter if their nose is deep in your butt or not.

 

In the case of Afghanistan maybe ... at least the whole NATO saw it that way and sees it that way ... because 9/11 was also the first Article 5 case of NATO!

But the rest?

 

Are there also "insurgents" in Afghanistan?

 

And now it is part of another sovereign state.
One which isn't trying to kill them.

Which clearly upsets you.

 

Proof? Who cares about proof? You don't--you still believe (apparently) the story that 19 arabs with box cutters hijacked 4 airplanes that day. There is no proof whatsoever of that, yet you still believe it. Not only believe it, you defend it.

Constant repetition of falsehoods does not make them come true.

 

The Ukraine never voted for Putin's 'leadership' and it would be up to them to sort out there own corruption. If countries can invade their neighbors because of 'corruption' then Mexico would now be a functioning democracy. In fact, had the British first settled North, Central and South America, there would be freedom,democracy and a Bill of Rights right from the arctic down to Tierra del Fuego. Of course that would open up charges of 'imperialism' because it would be the Americans doing it.

In fact the world is more peaceful than it's ever been, democracy is spreading and incomes are increasing. None of this is the consequence of Russian policies..

 

How about when a country has been stricken by criminal elements such as mafia-led organised crime, government and police corruption, and extreme religious terrorist infiltrators? How would anyone even begin to address them without being assassinated with 24 hours? Would you?? I know I wouldn't. Call me a coward, but I don't have a death wish. Therefore it took someone who had the guts to do it, and that someone is Vladimir Putin. Argue with that if you will??

 

Maybe Putin should clean up Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua if cleaning up corruption is his aim.

On the other hand...https://www.business-anti-corruption.com/country-profiles/russia/

 

That is not an argument I'd have expected from you. It's the argument of a man who realizes that he has er, no argument! WTF should Putin do any of that ffs?