Islam only scares the insecure

The center of Christian opposition to Islam is over the matter of Trinity and the disregard for acting upon what Jesus said in 32AD, in spite of the praise and glory muslims may give to Jesus as a prophet they do not listen to.

The major muslim error was in ignoring that Christ said he was The Truth, personified as an ideal which men must strive to imitate in themselves.
Truth has a father in the ever unfolding Reality which creates Truth in its own image.
This is the basis for trinity.

 

The Jews have demonstrated to us inthe West that appeaement and patience and time only works against the sanity of turning fire with fire.
Hamas no has incorporated the Palestinians in the west Bank to join their total hatred for jews and and israel.
tiome has worked against israel who ought to have used the last 70 years to sell a better flavor on having eliminated the PLO early on.

Israel needs now attack, level, and emigrate into Egypt, whole towns that will not stop the rocket throwers.

 

The Jews did that in 1948, when they bought a very small part of the original Israel in farms and property and won the British mandate to be a State.

The Arabs attacked them and lost but will not accept the peace terms the Jews have offered them.

 

You fail to identify the people who live in a town that allows and encourages terrorists to do these things, and brand them an untouchable civilian.

This is what happened in Gaza.

The PEOPLE voted for Hamas on the idea of destroying Israel with terrorism.
In the time Israel has allotted Hamas, they have created CARE in America to collect money, advocate for Islamic mistreatment of women, and propagandize the situation in Israel.

 

Jesus was speaking on a personal level, in that particular instance. By your reasoning the US should not have condemned Hitler's death camps. By that reasoning since you aren't perfect you have no right to criticize US actions. Yes, I do think the US is morally superior to Al Queda, do you?

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Sounds reasonable to me, Dave.

 

Islam only scares those who read the Qur'an literally.

 

So the Evangelist John saw it fit to waste precious papyri on telling a meaningless little incident, that won’t teach future Christians a thing? Maybe Matthew also had loads of time and papyri? Why don’t you declare the Sermon on the Mount a silly chatter among friends, not really directed at us anymore, because we did not happen to sit on that mountain back then? Speaking of said Sermon:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
(Mt. 5:43-48 )

Calling your enemy an animal and wishing to see him in hell is not exactly an expression of love, is it?

Wrong. That we should seek your own soul for sins before hypocritically accusing others of the very same injustice that we’re committing ourselves to a much larger extend, does not mean that we should be silent in the face of injustice. We should try to learn from our former mistakes, ask for forgiveness, then try our best to follow the right path in future.

When I criticize US action, when I condemn for example that the US government kills people without even haven given them a fair trial, that to kill those suspects, it bombs whole wedding ceremonies full of men, women and children, who are definitely innocent, I don’t do this whilst forgetting my own or my ancestors sins. I do it, because it is my Christian duty to speak out for those who suffer oppression:

“Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless;plead the case of the widow.” (Isaiah 1:17)
Or as the Apostle Paul put it: “And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.” (1. Thess. 5:14-15)

So let me remind you, my dear brother in Christ: Whilst it is horrible what happened to those poor Americans who were murdered in terrorist attacks, justice does not equate blind revenge.

“Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.” (Romans 12:19)

No, I don’t. Not only did the US kill many more innocent people than Al-Quaida ever did, it was the US that funded radical Muslim fighters in the first place (remember that proxy war the US fought with the Russians in Afghanistan). And then you are surprised that these fighers turn on you when you invade Muslim lands?
At least Al-Quaeda isn’t hypocritical about its whacko interpretation of Islam, whereas the US openly violates the very values that it preaches, thus making a worldwide mockery of western moral notions of justice, freedom and democracy that I happen to value. What your government serves these days (and I’m afraid so does mine) is imperialist greed, the God of Mammon. There’s nothing moral about that.

To me it sounds like warmongering propaganda, based on a foolish lack of historical knowledge. If you think of Mt 5:9 (“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.”), who do you think will fit the bill? You and Dave or these guys: http://www.cpt.org/work/palestine?

 

Once again you confuse personal commands with foreign policy. Jesus never told the Roman government to do anything, in fact He said they were put there to maintain order, at a time when Rome was much more brutal than you imagine the US to be. Jesus' statement that he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword was probably a reference to the death penalty.

It it was blind revenge we would have nuked Afghanistan. Hard to avoid civilian casualties when you have an enemy that deliberately hides among them. The fault is theirs.

Was he speaking to the Roman government there? By your reasoning we shouldn't even have a police department. The US Army is simply a bigger version of a police department.

As dumb as saying that because we armed Stalin, it is our fault there was a Cold War.

Perhaps you should move if your conscience bothers you so. Maybe Iran?

 

It wasn't the same thing. I don't condone the bombing of the king david hotel, but those responsible did warn the british first to get out. Nevertheless, it was a terrorist act, and didn't help the zionist cause, although there were even worse offences like the assasination of a britsh lord, who was actually quite sympathetic to the jewish people. That was an evil, terrorist act and its not supported by the majority of Israelis or zionists. But overall, the bombing of the king david hotel can't in any way be compared to the atrocities carried out by Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Hizbullah, or Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, these group consistently target civilians to inflict the worse possible violence and trauma. Hamas used to make videos of how to put as much shrapnel inside suicide bomber vests so that it would permamently maim and mutiliate and disfigure those who were not murdered, thus creating as much PTSD as possible. Very very twisted sick individuals, pure evil.

I don't have a problem with peaceful muslims, live and let live I say. However I do fear for good reason islamic extremists, and those who refuse to condemn Hamas make up much more than 1% of the muslim population I would wager. A recent poll put the percentage of hamas supporters quite high. Their ideology is very warped, they celebrate death of their own children and the death of jewish children. They are obsessed with murder and mayhem driven by jew hatred and I find anyone that supports these terrorist groups to be very disturbing.

 

The Jewish people need merely accept Christ as the Elijah, returned in 32AD.

This will not make them Christians exactly, but will make them "Elijahians."

Then, with the Christians at their heels, they need tell muslims that Christ was Truth, personified as an ideal. (John 14:6)
Truth HAS a father in the ever unfolding of Reality which says Allah is NOT one, but a trinity.


NOTE:


Both Elijah and Jesus raised the dead

Both Elijah and Jesus were immortal.

Both Elijah and Jesus disappeared from the foot of a mountain.

Both Elijah and Jesus ascended into Heaven before witnesses.

Both Elijah and Jesus troubled Israel.

Both Elijah and Jesus were hunted down by the Jewish authorities.

Both Elijah and Jesus hid in a cave/tomb.

Both Elijah and Jesus pondered in the wilderness 40 days.

Both Elijah and Jesus walked on the water.

Both wrote letters to people on Earth after they had ascended.

Both appointed a successor, Elisha by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ.

Both were hunted by the Jewish authorities

Both gave a successor the power to raise the dead

Both gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other.

Both asked that the this "cup" be taken from them.

Both are said to have had miraculous births.

Both multiplied the meal for many people they feed in the crowd

Both destroyed the pagan worshippers and priests, one Baal, the other, the Pantheon of Rome.

Both were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.

 

Why didn't we attack Switzerland, then when they refused to hand over Roman Polanski? He was a criminal, just like any terrorist. We do not have the right to violate national sovereignty. Failure to extradite is not sufficient provocation for acts of war.

 

We are supposed to use legal means instead of illegal. When we use the same tactics as the terrorists, we become terrorists. Nietzsche said that people who fight dragons become dragons. I guess he was right. But let's not be hypocritical about it, decrying tactics others use when we use them ourselves.

 

I disagree. If you aid and abet a Bin Laden, there will be consequences. You really think Roman Polanski is comparable to Bin Laden?

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Terrorists should not be covered by the Geneva convention, so there is nothing illegal about how we go after them. FDR executed German sabotuers caught in the US out of uniform in a week. That's what I call due process.

 

Yes, you probably can compare the US to the Roman Empire. In the book of Revelation the Roman Empire is symbolized by the whore Babylon. You know what it thinks of those who align themselves with such a brutal whore, don’t you? Who do you worship? Your Empire, that will pass like all other Kingdoms on Earth, or God?

No it was probably not a reference to the death penalty but a call to peaceful resistance as outlined in the Sermon of the Mount. We are not to take part in the vicious circle of violence. What Christians should take up is a cross, not a sword.

The Taliban would have extradited Bin Laden had their been clear evidence for his guilt (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/05/afghanistan.terrorism3. ; http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1539468.stm) The US refused to provide it and bombed the country thereby killing more innocent people than ever died in your 9/11.

A Western democracy living up to its proclaimed standards would have followed international law, negotiated an extradition and granted Bin Laden a fair trial before declaring him guilty.

Unlike the US Cuba has provided proof that Luis Posada Carriles committed terrorist acts, and yet you’d probably would not want to grant Cuba the right to bomb the US for not extraditing him. Do you know what the Bible says about having double-standards?
“Differing weights and differing measures, Both of them are abominable to the LORD.” (Proverbs 20:9)

IMHO He was speaking to all of humankind here and it is His followers job to make a start.
And if you don’t know the difference between police and military and if you think either is there to take revenge, you belong into the middle ages man, not into modern civilization. If the US wants to play World police they’d better stick to the rules of International law. Nobody likes a corrupt police-force.

While Stalin was not a lamb either, of course it is also the US’s fault that there was a Cold War. You did not want to tolerate a competing system, did you? Which is why your Capitalists supported Hitler to begin with. When Hitler got out of hand, you cooperated with the Sowjet Union for a while, then you turned on it. The same old story over and over again. The US has never had moral qualms about supporting convenient proxy dictators. Just think of the other 9/11: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/09/chile-911-pinochet-baltasar-garzon

Iran probably could be a fine place to live in these days had the US and Britain not toppled its democratically elected Prime Minister Mossadegh. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossadegh).
However: You’ve got a try and make the world a better place wherever God puts you. As it is I live in Germany and my conscience tells me to object whenever I perceive my Government to do wrong, rather than to applaud these wrong-doings out of a blind patriotism that equals idol-worship.

 

I worship Jesus Christ, and consider myself first a citizen of heaven. I am rather glad I was born in the US, instead of Iran, or Germany.

So why didn't Jesus tell the Roman Army to disband, or the Roman Centurian to quit? Instead, he commended the Centurian for his faith. Since you seem to be a pacifist, let me ask you a question: If the Good Samaritan came across the victim being beaten by the robbers, should he have sat by and watched until they were done? What would you want done if you were the victim? The Golden Rule in that instance tells us to stop the crime.

Nonsense, the Taliban might be primitive cave-dwellers but they aren't so stupid they didn't know what Bin Laden was up to. Another demonstration that to the hard left, it is always America's fault.

Never heard of Mr. Carrilles, which in itself tells me he wasn't comparable to Bin Laden. If he was trying to liberate Cuba from a brutal dictatorship, more power to him.

Had we not played policeman in 1941-45 you and your fellow Germans would still be making the Hitler salute. Funny how Europeans always see fascism coming to America, but it only ever lands in Europe.

A bit of an understatement don't you think, for one of history's greatest mass-murderers?

Was it also the Jews fault that Hitler killed 6,000,000 of them? Today's Muslims do a fair job of Jew-hate also.

You mean his National Socialist movement?

And Hitler was democratically elected, big deal.

I don't have any blind patriotism towards the US, there is lots wrong with it such as 4,000 abortions a day and the ongoing gay agenda, which I define as the attempt to normalize perversion. You seem to have blind America-hate.

 

I’m afraid you don’t sound like a citizen of heaven to me: http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Matt/Ethics-Gods-Kingdom

Because Jesus did not come to resolve the Roman Army, but to show us the path to salvation. While He'll be on our side, we’ll have to do the walking ourselves.

As for the Centurion: we don’t know what happened to him. But I should think that his faith will have transformed him and brought good fruit. How about the fruit of your posts? Do they reflect the love that Jesus had for all of us and especially for the poor and oppressed?

It’s one thing to stop crimes, it’s another to commit them or to use them as an excuse to repay evil with evil.
“9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing." (1. Peter 3:9)

In regards to the above mentioned 1. Peter 3-9, do you think it is befitting for a Christian to take to insult ("cave-dwellers") just because you are running out of arguments in face of the facts you’ve been presented here? Right and wrong is not a question of left or right.
As I indicated before, I think America as a nation has brought forward some very recommendable ideals, I just wish it would stick to them.

That you never heard of Mr. Carrilles could tell you about the bias of the media you are consuming. Did it never occur to you that from an Islamist point of view their terrorists are just trying to liberate the Muslim world from Western brutal dictatorship?
Whatever their motives: just as Islamist terrorists Mr. Carriles shed innocent blood. Before you applaud such actions, remember that shedding innocent blood is an abomination unto God (Proverbs 6:16-19).

What’s really funny is what a warped view of history some Americans have. With all due respect, it’s not as if the US had won WWII singlehandedly. Militarily speaking it’s always been a big mistake to invade Russia.
What’s also funny is that you have to go back to WW II. The US’s various attempts at ‘world-policing’ via military action weren’t that successful ever since, were they?

Yet a statement that acknowledges that Stalin was just that. I hold no more sympathy for his deeds, than I hold for anybody else’s murder sprees. Unlike you I don’t make a difference depending on whether the victims happened to be Russian, American, Chechen, Vietnamese or Afghani.

It was not the Palestinians fault that Nazi-Germany killed 6,000,000 Jews, yet they had to pay the prize for it. And it is the (previous and current) Israeli Government’s (not the Jews) fault that a lot of today’s Muslims do indeed hate Jews. Even Israel’s closest allies (your and my government) are getting pissed off with Netanjahu’s illegal settlement policies. If Yitzhak Rabin had not been assassinated by a radical settler-supporter, who knows, maybe Jews and Muslim (as well as Christian) Palestinians would already enjoy peace by now.

The NSDAP eliminated its ‘socialist’ wing as early as '32 and Hitler found support among Germany’s wealthiest industrial dynasties. And US-Banks: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

So you think, that because Hitler was democratically elected, we should abandon democracy? Or do you only want to abandon it and replace it with a brutal dictatorship such as the Shah's, when a people dares to vote for somebody the US-Government does not happen to like?

I don’t hate America or its people, but I despise wrong-doings and hypocrisy. And as you can see by the fact that I gave you sources for the wrong-doings I’ve criticized here, I am not blind when I do so. Your own blindness reveals itself when you criticize abortion whilst turning a blind eye to the murder of innocent children who are dying in your Government’s air strikes.

 

As long as each side has their version of the God of Abraham, there will never be peace between the Jews and Arabs. If they reside in the same locale.

 

Weird: there was a time when Jews, Muslims and Christians got along fine in Palestine. And I reside in the same locale as some Muslim friends of mine and it has never occured to us to bomb each other.

 

You need to do some research into Israel's recent history. Look up Irgun, Stern Gang, the sinking of the USS Liberty, etc.
Israel continues to violate international law by placing settlements in the land it has taken from other nations.
You seem to think it's okay for Israel to do what amounts to ethnic cleansing. Please justify this attitude.

 

So you think retaliating against Hamas attacks by basically firing into villages pretty much at random is somehow not terrorism? I would say that firing at random locations justifies Palestinian hatred of the state of Israel.

 

I'm not talking about the Geneva convention. I'm talking about international laws and national sovereignty. Drone strikes in neutral countries are illegal under international law. The crimes do not compare, but the situations do. Or do you think morality is a sliding scale: some actions become right because the reward is great enough?

 

You misunderstood. I said protect our interest and that's it, no bombing so called terrorist or bring 'demoncracy' to other nations.

 

What's your statistical source for 1%?

 

So what do you believe 'protecting our interests' entails? To what extent does that justify the use of force?

 

There is no other Nation since the PLO/Hamas have refused to form a State.
Meanwhile, they have been attacking Israel with terror and rockets while denying Israel exists, and threatening to exterminate it.

For 70 years now, these people have been saying they HAVE land, while refusing to certify it as a "State."

The Plan is clear and simple.
Hamas wants Israel OUT,... and they want terrorism to be the reasoning.