Manchester shooting: Children among 10 hurt

Nope, I'm saying that there is a net negative externality.

 

More of what crime?

 

I'm concerned about me, not you

 

Wouldn't think of watching the other half of the state propaganda machine

 

You watch propaganda to avoid propaganda? Interesting.

 

By a study that makes up numbers? What value was assigned to gun ownership?

 

Which propaganda is that?
I specifically indicated state

 

No value is necessary. Private benefits and costs are determined by demand and supply. Clearly you don't understand externalities. Do some reading and get back to me with a valid question?

 

Clearly you don't understanding that only looking at costs and not benefits is of no use.

 

You're not making sense. Private costs and benefits are naturally part of the analysis. It just happens that the evidence shows a difference between private and social costs. It's a negative, not positive, externality.

 

And it means nothing with regards to the benefit of gun ownership.

 

It does. It means supply and demand, which naturally takes into account private benefits and costs, leads to a problematic outcome which ignores coercive costs

 

Tell everyone present exactly what "coercive costs" amounts to in basic, practical, real-world terms.

 

Interesting academic exercise of zero real world value.

 

Interesting post truth avoidance of evidence based policy.

 

The US system of government isn't based on "evidence based policy". It's based on Constitutionally empowered federal government restricted by Constitutionally protect rights.

 

No we just want far less murders than you are happy with .... sorry if its confusing

 

Are you for real ? So you believe being shot by CCTV is worse than being shot by a gun ?

 

Doesn't seem to be working out for you.

Maybe you could put "diversity" barriers all over the roads and bridges.

 

I understand your frame of reference; methodological individualism is framework that has been advocated for decades, most particularly, by economists... as a means of understanding various social constructs as arising from the aggregate of individual rational, selfish decision making, and underlies the thinking of many in economic disciplines that follow game theory models. That framework is not accepted without criticism among other social science disciplines, particularly, those of cultural Anthropologists (even your hero, Marx) that debate the role of culture which provides a value framework describing the impact of quality based values over quantative measures. There is little means to quantify elusive qualities based values to provide a comparative analysis against quantities in individual decisions because individuals make decisions within the context of the culture in which they are embedded. It’s a continuing debate, particularly when considering how to justify various aspect of public policy. For instance, how do individuals in the US set a social ‘cost’ against the cultural value of individual liberty? It’s one of the major reasons why the issue of gun control is so polarizing in the US, some oppose principals of liberty in regard to the cost in crime and lives, yet aside from a lack of concensus about how costs (think Lott/Kleck vs Hemenway) are measured and compared, few have really tackled understanding how to figure people see those costs in the context of the value of individual liberty. It begs the question, how externalities can be calculated and measured against the culture values of those that ascribe to the principles enshrined in the Constitution. How much are they valued? We have paid billions in capital and millions of lives to preserve them. So the value must be high; has US society already figured the costs reflected in the current market?
In any market, there are sellers and buyers, those selling anything place a value on market item, but they can only sell it at their concept of fair market value if a buyer agrees on the value. What is the price/cost of liberty (or it’s perception) to an individual... to society in the US... I suggest it’s been determined on a continual basis and the ‘market’ is continually changing based on the aggregate of individuals expressing valuation politically.

 

Based on your biased valuation of the variables you are counting and ignoring those of others.

 

We want fewer, too. We just aren't willing to abandon the Bill of Rights when there are other methods.

 

Well it is if you can do math.... and I realise thats a major challenge for you guys

 

Nope. You have a personal bias on outcomes, not necessarily shared by Americans. It ignores qualitative values in favor of the particular quantitative measures you use as a basis, and a selective determination of evidence for how you want to evaluate outcomes. It isn’t based in a concensus of how valuation is determined in the US.

 

What works for us is not for you to judge. You have no voice in the matter and no clue about the valuations in our cultural context that are relevant.