Manchester shooting: Children among 10 hurt

Cue "post-truth" comment.

 

When your bill of rights means five times more innocent deaths than other developed countries then perhaps you should address that ? Lets be honest you like the idea of killing one another easily and wouldnt have it any other way

 

Yet the vast majority of us don't kill anyone at all, ever, so there's no support for your claim.

 

No I just know you are psychotic gun nuts that thankfully I don't have to deal with. Have fun

 

I'm not psychotic nor a gun nut.

 

Nothing like name calling and a generalization of Americans as bad; but then, that is the point of your posts. I like the concept of a wall, but think it should be to contain your island...think of how many lives would have been save over the last few hundred years.

 

Oh I can do math.

That math tells me your double digit violent crime rate increases have already surpassed NY, and it's only a matter of time before it's Chicago level.

Good luck with your car bans.

 

Having a CCTV camera film a gang curb stomping me into a wheelchair does exactly nothing for me; even if the footage enables the police to arrest my assailants. I'll take having the most effective means for self-defense on my person over having my life (or death) watched over by cameras any day of the ruttin' week. And I am VERY much for real on that point!

 

Did you do that study in Cambodia, early 70s?

 

This is splendid on two levels. First, thanks for googling it and coming out with a coherent response. That's rare on this sub-forum, so you deserve praise. Second, there is a delicious irony in your response. I've referred to methodological individualism to a pro-gunner lauding individualism. You've provided the critique that questions the very importance of such individualism. Thanks for that.

We have to tackle this in two ways. First, if you actually do believe in individualism (which seems important to those liking your comment), then cultural value is embedded within private benefits (and therefore demand analysis). It has no direct bearing on social costs (which refers to supply), except in determining the elasticity of demand conditions and therefore the impact of any optimal license fee on overall quantity demanded. Second, if you reject methdological individualism, you're still struggling for coherency. You would be celebrating individual liberty, despite acknowledging that guns (via crime effects) are necessarily attacking individual liberty. At best, you only have an argument to reject aspects of prohibition.

So thanks, but no dice! Try again?

 

Are you speaking for the UK or the EU as a whole?

 

Ah ....so theres no fun in arresting people when you can just kill them ?

I get it

 

Get back to me when your murder rate isnt five times ours

 

Far fewer than it already has

 

Eurotrash being Eurotrash

 

Not a single Brit is trustworthy enough to own a handgun. How does an entire population get such a reou?

 

Clearly, you don't get diddly squat. Love how you purposefully miss the point. You don't care if someone suffers life-shattering injuries so long as their attackers don't get hurt. So, in other words, you support criminals and their ability to freely practice their brutalization of the people. "I get it."

 

You're about to find out exactly what this is like, as your immigration patterns get closer to what ours have been since the late 1960's.

 

Centuries ago Emile Durkheim and his nephew, Marcel Mauss were struggling with the what would eventually become methodological individualism as a framework of understanding and early concepts of culture which would become the focus of the later discipline of Anthropology. Both ultimately surmised that a duality existed that itself became a topic for debate, that of the individual’s response to the culture the in which individual was embedded. Human values in culture do not arise as an aggregate of those of individuals independent of the cultural reference frame in which individual values (and biases) are developed. The value of Individual liberty in the US is part of a shared value system and a reference frame for those that embrace the principles codified by the Constitution. Any advocated public policy that runs counter to that shared frame of values will generate a conflict from disagreement over the collective value system as it has in the US. Those in the UK do not share the value system that developed in the US and the individuals within the respective cultures, shared belief systems that are the products of those cultures are not likely to agree on either what constitutes a problem or a solution. The polarized debate on guns in the US is a debate of it’s cultural value system, of which, guns are but one topic among many but at it’s core is a long standing disagreement of foundation of the principles that have guided the American system of beliefs and our system of government.
Several of us have suggested that the gun control issue is viewed by many to be a broader issue of political competition where liberals use the issue to identify and attempt to surpress the voices of their conservative opposition. The Left is beginning to emerge from behind the cloak that has hidden their agenda, embracing Socialism. The creeping agenda is now openly challenging the core of the US culture....the individual vs the mob.
Gingrich addressed this the other day, making some of the same comparisons to the French Revolution as I have in the past...
Newt Gingrich: Democrats have no idea what demons they are unleashing
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...-have-no-idea-what-demons-are-unleashing.html

I have a pretty good idea of your value system and your frame (Marxist economics) of reference. We don’t share frames of reference or values.

 

You're repeating the google search, rather than actually respond to what I said. Didn't you think it was a little awkward that you attempted to attack methdological individualism (given pro-gunners are so typically reliant on the call)? Also, how precisely can you refer to individual liberty when you are demanding that coercion (via additional crime effects) are ignored?

This struck me as a little amusing. The reason that socialists have been sidelined in the US is because 'politics is money'. Politicians traditionally buy their slots. The change at the moment is two fold. First, break down in the median voter model (reflecting a realisation that both parties maintained an extreme neoliberal outcome). Second, improvements in activism. That's individualism on display!

It would help if you didn't pretend that I'm a Marxist. I have to refer to Marxist economics to understand economic outcome. So does the neoclassical economist! However, I'd typically be seen as sitting under the institutionalist umbrella.

 

The bill of rights is not being utilized and exploited by those who are responsible for the majority of murders in the united states. Rather those who are directly responsible for the majority of murders in the united states are those who have already been relieved of their constitutional rights through due process of the law.

 

Then what is preferred by yourself, is an individual with no criminal record of any sort, being assaulted and crippled for the sake of attempting to arrest and convict the guilty parties after the fact?

 

Nice try, but you are so focused on your narrative that attributed one to me that wasn’t mine and you missed the salient points in my post which isn’t surprising since in several exchanges I have made them before and they go over your head; my 1st year grad students do better.
As for your take on ‘change’ and social activism in the US, you display your ignorance on the American both American culture and the political process in the US, of which the issues of gun control provide window into the larger polarization of the population’s struggle over culture values, skewed by you continuing your rhetoric using the concept of methdological individualism as your attemp to illustrate, in your mind, your narrative of the character of gun owners while committing the very same behavior you accuse them of exhibiting.
There are several reasons why many here are rejecting your arguements, those reasons can be understood by the points in my posts...hint, it isn’t explained by the framework proposed by methodological individualism. It also is an element missing in Marx economic concepts and understanding of value, a area of study conducted by culture anthropologists using emic methodologies, themselves often confused with methdological individualism. This approach, emic, was one that sought to provide a better model of understanding than the framework developed by etic oriented archaeologists of the late 1800’s, early 1900’s. In the ‘70’s and 80’s I was working on a hybrid model.
From your perch, you lack the understanding an emic perspective would provide and therefore are unable to understand why your arguements fall flat on gun owners here. There is a general phrase sometimes tossed about, ‘the Ugly American’ in reference to the characterising of American behavior and belief’s abroad which could just as easily be used to summarize that exhibited by the ‘Ugly Brit’. Both describe people entrenched in ethnocentric based biased judgement of others. The introduction of the character, English Bob, in the movie, The Unforgiven, exemplified the ‘Ugly Brit’ lecturing Americans in their own country.

 

Don't be harsh now! I've already thanked you for your attempt to dismiss the importance of individualism. Its an openness that I find quite uncommon in pro-gunners.

So money hasn't traditionally determined the ballot paper? Its like you've been sealed away in a bubble and only been fed Disney cartoons. Kind of cute really.

I'm quite happy for you to attack methodological individualism. It is typically attacked by those that want to dismiss the Chicago School and the notion of the rational choice model. I just wasn't expecting you to do it. As I said, well done! Its been refreshing to see you so open in disputing the relevance of right wing ideology!

 

I don't want the easy facilty to kill anyone ... why do you ?