Marines delay 3-pullups requirement for women

Have to love the netiquette from a certain poster in this thread.

Anyway, as to the topic at hand, I feel the extension shouldn't have happened as long as time was given between when the changes. From what I understood reading on it, they extended the deadline not only for new recruits but also for current Marines. Now, with that said, from my time in the Corps, people were in fact given time to fix PT standards should they fall below the standard set forth. I always agreed with this measure and feel the time given was adequate and would not be opposed for doing this for current female Marines. As for new recruits, I will wait to see what the Marine Corps has to say, but feel the deadline should only be extended for a short time and no standards should be changed.

As for the whole every job in the Marines is a "combat position"; I prefer that no matter what job, a Marine has basic(and by basic, I mean very basic) infantry knowledge to fall back on. I wouldn't call it a "combat position"

 

No... music, finance, traffic management, CE aren't combat positions. Combat is more a spectrum than a position, with an overwhelming majority of fields falling under combat support roles (vs. fulfillment). These roles include logistics, comm, training, utilities, meterology, maintenance (ground & avionics), com cam, legal, ordinance disposal, navigation & public affairs. Of the small percentage of marines that are in direct combat related fields, an even smaller percentage actually sees combat.

What you're claiming is exactly the same as claiming everyone in the Air Force flies an aircraft. Every Marine is a warrior first, as they should be... their field environments call for every one of them to possess above basic knowledge of weapon use. That, however, doesn't translate to "every job in the U.S. Marines is a combat position".

 

As for the topic... ample time is given to meet requirements (that are explained well before performance evaluations). 3 pull ups isn't asking the world, so if that standard can't be met then perhaps another branch is suitable.

 

Yes, the discussion is about the Marine Corps wanting to maintain a basic level of physical fitness. The requirement will be EVERYONE, regardless of gender...must be able to do a minimum of 3 pull-ups. A very reasonable standard for a young recruit to be able to maintain. ..yet, the Marines are discovering that most females can't do this.

Houston we have a problem!

If they can't meet these minimums, they have no place in the Marines.

Just as the USAF maintains minimum standards for flight training...too tall, too short...not gonna happen.

I have never stated anything to the contrary....here's my proposition...why are females not meeting this requirement?

Can a conditioning program be implemented to work with a recruit?

Rather than develop a policy....females will never be able to meet the minimum physical standards...has a program been designed to better condition these recruits?

If folks would actually read my posts instead of shooting from the hip.
"Lefty"
"you want to feminize the miitary"
"Obama wants to force females into the ranks to appease feminists"

I never said any of that.

Females, are naturally ill suited for tasks involving upper body strength. Many jobs, for example a linguist, don't require upper body strength in the normal course of duties...so beyond the minimum standards of physical fitness, of which I am a proponent of, I see no valid reason to preclude women, merely on the basis of a scenario where they might have to "load ammo cans" or "toss a grenade 30 yards" or "carry a wounded Marine/soldier" off the battlefield.

Basic level of physical fitness including the ability to do 3 pull-ups. = Agreed

If a female wants to have an occupation, say I don't know, an infantryman, then yes she will need to be able to meet the standards and qualifications in the area of physical fitness required to do that job. Heavy lifting is an essential part of the job, therefore anyone who can't meet this qualification should not be allowed to do so.

91% of jobs, I believe a female can probably do, provided they maintain the minimum standards of physical fitness required by everyone.
Not every job requires the heavy lifting, upper body strength requirements that an infantryman must possess. I'm at issue with some of the scenarios presented...they deal more with the mythos of military service. I for one, could probably not do what an infantryman does on daily basis...yet I was qualified to serve in other areas that perhaps an infantryman couldn't do.

We're all on the same team here....I am at odds why there is so much confrontational rhetoric. The whole..."you're in the rear with the gear" crapola is sophomoric. Guess what, the folks who say that earned the right to say it.

 

Whatever. I'll go with what the MARINES say about it:

In boot camp at Parris Island or San Diego, and in the Basic School at Quantico, no one escapes from the Rifleman's Creed. Every Marine is trained, first and foremost, as a rifleman


http://www.usmcpress.com/heritage/marine_corps_rifleman's_creed.htm

I'm going to go with what the USMC says about it, instead of you, etal, if it's all the same to you.

IN addition, I consider "rifleman" a COMBAT POSITION, as in "EVERY MARINE is TRAINED FIRST and FOREMOST AS..."

This thread refers to WOMEN in COMBAT, which happens in TWO YEARS.


LOWERED MILITARY STANDARDS to accomodate "PC" is the kind of detrimental crap that ONLY THE LEFT could contrive.

As I said..they are not worried about "Marine secretaries" faliing to perform, are they?

 

Blind to color/blind to gender. There must be EQUAL standards for ALL, regardless.

Anything less is an insult to the US Military,and , in this case, the USMC, in particular.

Even more ominous, is the potentially DEADLY consequences of Marines held to a LOWER STANDARD, in combat, where OTHER MARINES' lives are at stake, as well as their own.

One of the WORST policies, in the sad history of bad ideas. PC does not work.

 

Not all male Marines are able to pass all the training the first time. If they can't they are set back to repeat the part they fail at. If they still can't do it, they are cut. No one has said they have made any female exempt from any part of their training.

 

don't you know in the liberal world diversity trumps ability.

 

Had you actually read my comment, you'd see that I stated:

Every Marine is a warrior first, as they should be... their field environments call for every one of them to possess above basic knowledge of weapon use.​

I know the "whatever" reaction is easy as any knee-jerk response, but attempt to understand how military roles work if you'd like to have an informed discussion. Every airman is trained in basic with the M-4 rifle prior to graduation, and shown how to zero the weapon for optimal use in the event it becomes necessary.. with annual requirements throughout their tenure in the AF. Every branch requires training in weapons, as we're all expected to abandon technical roles to become a defense fighting force in the event it becomes a necessity. You're attempting to translate needed training to a position, and that's simply not accurate... or else their MOS would simply read "rifleman" instead of the various fields I've mentioned previously.

 

You are right, no matter what a Marine is trained to do,(MOS) he is trained to be a rifleman first. You will be able to be pulled off any job your doing and sent into direct combat if needed.

 

See Post #60. "Whatever " was the appropriate response to your absolutely FALSE claim. As I said, SEE POST #60.

You are WRONG.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you. Have known quite a few. None bolder. None braver.

 

I think you need to learn to read. Where in my post did I say the standard should be lowered? Please, point it out to me. The only thing I even said about dropping standards was people were given adequate time to fix them. If they did not fix them, they were discharged. I have, and will always, be in favor of giving time to Marines in order to fix themselves and reach standards.

 

You need to learn to read.

Where in my post did I say you said that?

BTW-LOWERED STANDARDS have already been implemented:


Female Marines Not Required To Do 1 Pull-Up

CNSNews.com) -- Females in the Marine Corps currently are not required to do even a single pull-up, and a deadline mandating that by Jan. 1, 2014, they be able to do at least 3 pull-ups as part of their training has been delayed for at least a year, the Corps quietly announced on social media.


Unlike their female counterparts, male Marines have long been required to do at least 3 pullups as part of the Physical Fitness Test (PFT). That's the minimum requirement for males.

Female Marines are required, however, to do a flexed-arm hang from a bar, and their PFT score is calculated based upon how long they can properly hang on the bar. (See video for pull-ups and flexed-arm hang demonstrations.



http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-boland/female-marines-not-required-do-1-pull

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The "THREE PULL UP" requirement, is an attempt to bring females UP TO the same level as male recruits,and it's been put off already, as well.

 

Your entire post is arguing a point I never made. You are arguing that standards should not be lowered for people and I never once in my post said they should be lowered for anyone. Would you like to try again?

 

I edited in the CURRENT STANDARDS for female Marine recruits, which is ZERO pull ups.

Please read the provided link in my last post. Lowered standards have been in place for awhile, now.

 

Again, where in my post did I say the standards should be lowered for females? Point it out. You are, again, arguing a point I never disagreed with.

 

Still not reading? Post #60 said the same thing I did:

Good Heavens Grokmaster, slow down and relax. What Marine1 has stated is no different than anything I and others have already stated, only you're taking that to mean that every job is a combat job, and sorry... that's simply not accurate. If every job was, this conversation would involve more than 3 pull-ups. It'd be the strenuous requirements you'd see in advanced tactical schools for everyone.

 

I'm not arguing with you; I am apprising you of the CURRENT FACTS of this issue.

You're welcome.

 

Dude, you quoted me and went on about how standards shouldn't be lowered when I never said they should. If I said they should be lowered, then you would have a point, but I never did. I'm actually in favor of tests being the same for males and females, so really, there was no point in trying to mention what you did.

 

Ok..so you know more about the realities of the USMC than do the Marines themselves.

Got it. Great dance moves!!

Look at you go!!





Meanwhile, female Marine recruits are currently not even required to do ONE PULL UP... because government PC mandated quotas are all about "equality"...der...

 

Marine boot camp is tough and so is it for women recruits. If you have the Military Channel, they have a program on once in awhile that takes you through Marine boot camp. I made a mistake and went in right after those seven recruits were marched in Ribbon Creek and drowned. Scared the hell out of me when I found out and our drill instructor threatened to do the same to us if we screwed up.

 

Yeah, we got told that story too... and that was 40+ years after it happened lol

 

I teach CROWS operations for MATV's to 3 different branches, to include Marines... I have yet to teach a Marine cook, though... or a Marine that's primarily in financial management. Why would that be, if said roles are also combat roles?

 

I didn't read any previous post Grokmaster said, but every job isn't a combat job, but every Marine has to have combat training in case he is needed. I was a jet mechanic and plane captain. But I was also trained on the M1 Grand, M1 Carbine, pistol and BAR. Plus we training in bayonets, hand to hand combat.

 

Agreed.

Nice, and thank you for your service. Wish I could get some trigger time behind the Garand.