Marines delay 3-pullups requirement for women

I just want to be confident that the person next to me is fully capable of actually dragging me out of fire should I get debilitated. Pull-ups at least tell you a little about someones capacity to carry you out of the fire

 

Gender is a social construct.

There are no biological differences between males and females except for differences that have been taught

 

It doesn't matter in that they should bable to do push ups, pull ups crunches, everything. My typo is what didn't matter. The fact that its 3 Instead of 30 is the problem.

 

This was during the 1970's and I don't think they lasted two years. Big mistake the Navy made with that uniform. I found an article on it, but so far not found a picture of it.

9. The Decision to Change - 1970's

In 1973 the most sweeping change in the history of enlisted dress occurred. Based on a survey conducted in 1970 it appeared that there was some fleet desire, principally among the more senior petty officers, for a different, more distinguished garb. Based on these findings, the sailor was removed from his traditional uniform and placed in a suit and tie which corresponded to the officer/CPO style. The intention was to create a single uniformed appearance and present the enlisted male in a uniform which was thought to better reflect the increasing complexity of the modern Navy.

The action to utilize a suit style for all enlisted has been one of the most controversial changes to effect the Navy in its uniform history. From a practical standpoint, the adoption of a different uniform for dress wear was not the result of a requirement. The jumper/bell bottom style had evolved in a work environment where each piece of the garment originally satisfied a need. With the absence of fully rigged sailing ships and the advent of more comfortable work uniforms, what a sailor wears for dress occasions is now a matter of style.

The most obvious impasse to acceptance of the suit and its outfit to the enlisted and general public is that it breaks with tradition. While the components of the jumper style uniform serve no nautical purpose today and are not related to anything worn in the civilian world, it has served to identify sailors all over the globe for too long a period of time. Most navies of the world have utilized a similar outfit and most still retain it for non-rated personnel. Throughout the course of uniform history there has continued a strong resistance to changing traditional garments. Sailors prefer to be distinctively dressed. It was the same in 1830 as it is in 1977.

 

The change happened just before I joined in 1978. Crackerjacks were forbidden and aside from work utilities sailors were made to dress up like some variant of office geeks. Mostly though it was black shoes and socks, black slacks and black 'dress shirt' and black tie. But White combination cap as I recall. Anyway by the time I was through boot camp tentatively the navy was allowing the cracker jacks to return. I never invested in the things though. Too expensive!

The white ensemble was strictly for wear in tropical climates, though. As I was always in cold climates I never got to see an enlisted man wearing it.

 

My daughter in her early 20's was in the Army Nat Guard and used to lift weights back then.. She has maintained her physical fitness after marriage and having 3 children, and in her late 30's can still do 10 pull ups at her present 135lbs weight--has 'the Army become physically better than the Marines?!!'

When she was in the Army, they were taught that their males buddies were depending upon THEM to get off the battlefield if injured---she was also a medic!

 

it should be delayed for all, not just female recruits, that is where it becomes discriminatory

 

pull ups tell you about the weight they can pull up (their own weight), the heavier they are, the more they pull up

 

Never saw it in black, only white. I can't remember if the suit coat was single or double breasted. Had a brimmed hat with it and a tie. It looked nothing like a Navy enlisted man's uniform. More like the good humor man. I know it didn't last to long and it was so bad, I can't seem to find a picture of it anywhere.You would think there would be since it was such a sweeping change from anything they ever had before.

 

Women in the Navy are called Waves. In the Army they are called Wacs. Forget what the Air Force called them. Marines had a name for them, but it was never spoken around them or any officer. Does anyone know what it was? Sounded good.

 

WAFs (Womens Air Force)

Speaking of sexist refs. We had another name for the folding 'Flight Cap'...<wink>

 

BAMs

Broad Ass Marines

That'st the term I've heard referenced to female Marines.

 

Your right, I forgot. Officially. the Marines called them simply Women Marines. But the men had another name for them.

- - - Updated - - -

Right. We called them BAMS, but not to their face.

 

I remember the ensemble as you generally describe it; but -- alas -- I can't recall the exact specifics either.

 

Women have an uphill battle in the military no matter what they do. Every physical fitness test I have ever taken, going back to ROTC always maintained gender specific standards. The females typically were allowed longer minimum timed runs and fewer push-ups. For males there were differing standards for age groups also. I never even thought about it, or cared for that matter. I concentrated on the standards I needed to meet. I didn't want to pass just doing the minimums. Women, generally speaking, have a different physical build than males and on average don't have the upper body strength therefore their standards are adjusted accordingly. I suppose for some occupations in the military, this causes some concern. Personally I never thought much about it and knew it was a given the females had different physical fitness level standards as did certain age groups within the males. The Air Force trusts females to be aircraft commanders in billion dollar aircraft, the B-2 bomber. it's a bit disingenous to make the claim the only reason they do this is to maintain a government mandated quota.

The physical fitness tests and the standards are secondary to the fact...can a person...male or female...do the job. For exampe If the job entails lifting a 75 lb. artillery shell, and this person...male or female, can't do this, they shouldn't be doing that job. There is no basis in establishing a mandate that every single person in the military needs to be able to lift a 75 lb. artillery shell..."just in case."

Everytime I've ever seen a Marine while deployed, they had a cigarette hanging out of their mouth...I'd say at least 25% of them smoked...so c'mon, you dont' think that effects battle readiness and fitness? Where's the big speeches...."this will cost lives!"....where's the melodramatic scenarios.

 

I remember the 'unofficial' Navy slogan, "Join the Navy and ride the Waves"...

Still waiting for Herk to chime in on the slang name for the USAF folded Flight Cap..
Or was that an enlisted man thing.....no gentleman here.....

 

Rhymes with punt...cap.

 

Ding...Ding...Ding.... something to do with holding it w/both hands, looking down, and opening (to wear) & closing it (to tuck in belt) ..????

 

I always thought it was referencing the fold in the cap when worn and seen from above....not sure of the exact origin. It's definitely a non-PC term for sure not suitable for mixed company.

 

This is a little off the subject, but an opportunity to illustrate a huge problem with women in combat jobs.

In the USMC, every Marine who enlists with an open contract, meaning they don't have a specific job guaranteed, usually because of poor ASVAB scores and sometimes just because the recruiter was that good; risks being assigned to the infantry. At the end of boot camp, the almost new Marine gets orders to the Infantry Training Battalion, non-grunts go to Marine Combat School, and infantrymen go to the School of Infantry. It is at that time the Marine who signed an open contract learns if he'll be a grunt or not.

Women have never been assigned to the infantry after signing an open contract. Will they now?

Many Marines signed up to be grunts, some did not. Those who didn't have no choice but to go through the training and be assigned to a rifle company. Will women get that same opportunity? I don't think so. I'm reading about women given the opportunity to volunteer, but not to be assigned involuntarily to the infantry. That is not equality.

 

Exactly. And all these people talking about how not all MOS's require strength, or that computer skills are more important, etc., are neglecting the simple fact that learning computers or any other complex skill requires way more effort than doing 3 pull-ups. So if they are too lazy to accomplish something as easy as 3 pull-ups, they probably won't have any such skills, and they wouldn't put forth the effort to learn them.

 

Women Marines = Woogie Monsters

 

Marines are a different situation from the other svces. When I went thru USAF boot camp at Lackland AFB, San Antonio in hot TX July, our barracks was across from the WAF barracks. And when we worked KP in their chow hall, they would come in from marching et al in baggy fatigues with no makeup, hair plastered down w/sweat, and salt rings under their armpits, with their WAF TI (Technical Instructor..or equivalent of a DI) yelling obscenities that would embarrass even us guys!! (of course that language is no longer allowed with 'either' sex today, with our now enlightened sexual sensitivity!).

But we guys respected them as they lived in the same un-A/C hot barracks, went thru the same harassment, and did PT at 5 AM in the morning like us.

But WAF's were a minority and most ended up in the clerical or medical fields, where physical strength was not a major reqmt..

 

Keep in mind, females are at a distinct disadvantage in terms of their skeletal-muscular system. On average they have 40% less muscles that we would refer as "upper body strength." Personally I've never been at odds with females having different PT standards. We can agree, if an occupation demands upper body strength, the different PT standards matter more. What I'm discussing is more the overall physical fitness of the military as a whole. Not everyone needs to have the strength necessary to be an infantryman, yet they can still perform a job, such as a linguist...at a very high level equal to any male.

The debate then centers, on what is a realistic base of physical fitness that every single Marine should have.
I'm not a Marine, so that's best determiined by that organization.

 

Keep in mind your talking about mental effort, not physical effort. A woman is not built like a man and their physical skills are limited.