Should the Church change to reflect modern society?

Does God follow the will of the people or do people follow the will of God?

Do Christians on the forum believe that Christianity needs to change its views on abortion or homosexuality in order to align itself with modern views?

IMO God is a benevolent dictator and not a democracy, so it seems ludicrous that modern Christians would say that the Church needs to change to reflect our society. This thread is about Christianity and not specifically Catholicism, but been seeing in the news people asking should the new Pope's rule reflect the views of modern day society. A weird question to ask if one understands Christianity.

 

This is a very 'touchy' subject. When does the body of Christ on the earth need to hold up a standard (which is scripture based and results in persecution), and when is crossing over to 'of the world' (if any man loves the world the love of God is not in him) which we are warned against in scripture? "Modernizing" is caving in to the secular mores of the time.

I personally do not have a problem with contraception (as not seeing it as killing humans as not yet fertilized) and there are cases where abortion seems compassionate; and in a republic, Gay marriage being a civil contract appears to not be in violation of the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," I can still vote against if it violates my moral beliefs, but others may pass per the Bill of Rights as they see it.

These are hard times for the body of Christ to be "in the world but not of the world"
as scripture states! And it has already been written in the NT scriptures that you 'will be persecuted," as Jesus said, "The world will hate you as it hated me first." Taking a counter-culture stand will not be popular and will lead to persecution....sorry, but there is no such thing as 'comfortable Christianity"..

 

Interesting view. I do like that you vote based on your morality and that is an excellent way to apply your faith to our society. I have never really understood how a Christian could live in a secular country without having to modulate or abandon their beliefs altogether. But what you have said strikes a good balance between your faith and the society that you are a part of. With that said I do not understand how liberals can be Christians, but that debate is for another thread.

Persecution knows no boundaries. I have many times been persecuted by Christians because of the way I look... long haired man with a tattoo and wearing Heavy Metal tee-shirts. And out of anger I have in turn persecuted many a Christian. Bit of a two way street as I see it. But that is just me and my experience and in no way typifies the status quo.

Thanks for your input as it has given me a better perspective on Christians and our society.

 

Speaking as a member of the body of Christ, the church, I don't think the church should change one bit for society. I believe you should vote your conscience, as the Holy Spirit leads you, but if the country goes a certain way, so let it. I don't agree with homosexuality, and I would never vote for it, but if it happens thats fine, not my problem. I don't believe in abortion in any circumstance, and I'll vote against it everytime, as a voting member of this democratic republic, however the church should never compromise scripture.

Now as for the having long hair part of the other post, coming from a background of being a heavy metal guitar player with hair midways down my back, and hair almost as long in the front I believe I can tell you that you bring it on yourself. I was a long haired guy, and got followed around in stores, stared at by security, got strange looks pretty much anywhere I went, but anytime, you wear, or decide to style yourself differently than mainstream, you're going to attract attention, sometimes negative, and sometimes positive. Its no different than if I had a business suit, short hair, and carried a briefcase and then went to a black veil brides concert. I would get a lot of strange looks, but I should expect it, I would not be on the norm. Thats life. You're no different than the saggy jeans guys or the tattooed bikers. If you choose to go against the grain, you'll be looked at strange. I don't think its a bad thing, as I believe the Apostle Paul was looked at strange. I believe the people that witness openly on college campuses are looked at strange. So there's nothing wrong with being different.

 

Too many pp these days say "I feel" as to justify their beliefs & subsequent actions.

If ppl base their actions on their 'feelings' they are unstable, as feelings can change from day to day. The question shud be "What is their 'anchor?" What 'firm foundation' as scriptures says, is their house built upon?

If one goes by 'feelings,'' then they missed Hitler by 70 yrs....and Jim Jones by 40 yrs. Both as other mortal men reached out to the 'feelings' of the populace.

Feelings are fickle and change pending the soup de jour ...

I can guarantee you that with time and a changing society, sex with minors will become acceptable to man---1st, 17, then 16, then 15, then 14 then 13, and then 12 yo, as we crude boys use to say, "If they're old enuf to bleed, then they're old enuf to butcher." Altho seemingly unacceptable at this present time, it can become acceptable by society as "feelings' change according to the latest societal norms.

Btw: The OP mentioned in another thread that they 'reject the Bible,' and so my questions are: the whole, if not what parts, all of the spiritual verbiage as in having no spiritual truth or worth in it, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, etc. i.e. what is the anchor/foundation of your 1-man/woman belief system?! Why do you have the truth and no one else does? On what is your credibility based as men shud listen to YOU?

Having a point of view with valid back up (such as historical, or a book of morals, etc) other than "I feel" is important in differentiating one from just a run-of-the-mill yahoo/hedonist/etc.

 

Absolutely NOT. God does not change. He created us and has loved us for who we are without ever changing.

 

That's the way I see it.

I know, but I hate that aspect of humanity. Judging a book by its cover is wrong... wrong and we all do it... even me. I do live in a country with a Christian majority, and as such I do buck the system and am willing to pay the price for my rebellion. For me, to become something that I am not, all so others like me, would be so dishonest, I just could not live like that. Believe me, I speak from experience here. I tried the button down short hair Church going thing for way to long... and it never felt right.

 

it does if it expects to survive

 

By the church I assume Christianity.

Christianity has changed more times than I care to count as society has advanced.

It is changing right now....and will keep doing so until it does not even remotely resemble the first versions.




Had it not done so, it would have failed long ago.

 

The question becomes: "Are all changes reflecting modern society, good?"

Or just the changes that make my 'pet' sin Ok so I have no guilt nor condemnation?

I think NAMBLA would like to see the church updated on their behalf!

And what changes have 'unintended consequences?' Things that look good now, but will eventually take down a civilized society.

As they say, it's like "opening Pandora's box," as once all the ills are allowed than it is impossible to restrict them again---kinda like prohibition.

Just as abortion was sold originally as a 'boon to women and the health of their bodies,' it quickly devolved into birth control and carte blanche killing of the unborn to the tune of 55 million dead humans.

The limit on man's sins as deemed by man are w/o bounds....

 

sure, without em your church would have disappeared

 

OK, I will make a note that Canadian Métis Buffalo hunters are "pro-NAMBLA"

 

note what ya like

 

I do not believe in God because I read someone else's experience in a book, I believe in God because of the experiences that I have had in my life. But that's just me and other people find God in many different ways. To each their own I say.

Faith in God. As simple as that. I need no book as an anchor... God is my anchor. The Bible is not God, it is only a tool.... right? Or do Christians think that the Bible is part of the Holy Trinity? If not, then its only a book, an important book to be sure, but none the less just a book.

I never said that nor do I believe that. Perhaps Christians should ask themselves the same question though. There are many different religions... many different paths to God. If one finds God, lives a good life, and is happy... then why would anyone care how they found God?

As a spiritual adviser once told me "follow me and I will lead you straight to hell"... never follow foible man, follow God. I do not require anyone to listen to me. Listen or do not as it matters little. I have no desire to prove my faith or to convert anyone... that is the realm of organized religion and a primary reason for so much strife in our world.

Christians have the true God because the Bible says so... opps, just a second... the Hebrew Bible has the true path to God... damn... just a second... the Quran shows us the true path to God... OK... sorry... just a second... the Satanic Bible is the one and only truth of God... screw it... I give up... to many damn religions claiming that they have "the" way to God... at least they don't kill each other over whose God is the real God... what... you don't say... they do kill each other in the name of their God... wow, that's messed up!

Personally I will take my belief in God, not impose it on anybody and live my life as best as I can. Love me or hate me for it, maters little.

 

excellent post

 

Yes, I mean Christianity. And I agree, since the earliest days of Christianity the Church has fractured into many new branches of Christianity.

 

Proverbs 21:2

People may be right in their own eyes, but the LORD examines their heart.

If every man/woman did what was right in his/her own eyes, then we would have 7.5 Billion religions. And there would be no 'absolute truth,' but your truth, and my truth, etc. etc.
If one believes in God then they must accept His truth, aka His standards of right & wrong. And where do ppl learn these standards--from a book of morals (pick one).

But as it said, the Lord weighs the heart (knowing the thoughts & intentions of a man).

Going back to your 'foible man,' scripture says that 'Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind." Is that a spiritual truth that lines up with your words?

And saying all that to say this, "I have read & studied the scriptures to dig out the 'spiritual nuggets of truth' within the writings, as being inspired by God but still written by men.

And so to 'throw out the baby with the bath water' because of bad church experiences, or with Christians, etc. doesnt absolve one from being a 'seeker of the truth.' It just becomes an excuse and a way to wash one's hands of responsibility, as "ignorance is bliss' to many, and "denial' becomes their way of life.'

p.s. I'm not a pew warmer, but do seek truth on my own..however, I dont put God in 'my' box as I will, but seek His will...

 

Change is certainly not synonymous with good... but good certainly is subjective.

 

Indeed. Faith in God is a personal thing and best left between the individual and God.

My view of foible man is based upon my observation of humanity not the Bible. God gave me a brain to use, so I use it. I don't need a book to teach me morality or spirituality... my God given common sense suffices there.

As for the rest of your post, you seem to have taken some liberty in making some inaccurate assumptions. Perhaps you read way too much into what I am saying.

 

So, there are no 'absolutes,'' which makes life 'convenient, huh?

Serial killers also have 'brains' Psychopaths also have brains, Stalin/Hitler/Mao also had brains.

Again, we're back to doing what's right in your own eyes....leaves a lot of leeway for 'pet sins,' huh?

Sounds like 'Religion of Convenience." You have a good following in that 'religion!

I'm picking at you, but you seem to have a good heart....I am a 'tough lover,' which btw I've found out doesnt work on woman, but often men need a slap in the face to get their attention & wake them up (as in 'think')

Gnite...OD

 

of course there are absolutes

 

Absolute morals? I disagree.

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No, it makes it incredibly more hard.

 

who said absolute morals?

 

How many people think that the church should change its views on lying, cheating, stealing, murder?

The church changed its views on eating certain foods and baptizing the dead and other religious rituals. It stopped having temple prostitutes (or it didn't adopt the practice). It stopped having circumcision as a part of the Christian ritual for men.

What did Jesus say about religion in Mark 2:27-28 (CEB) = Then he said, “The Sabbath was created for humans; humans weren’t created for the Sabbath. This is why the Human One is Lord even over the Sabbath.”

Therefore, if you want to howl at the moon and paint yourself zyglo blue do it. God was OK with Abraham banging his half sister for 80 years and Jephthah slicing and dicing his daughter. He didn't have any problems with Lot screwing his daughters. So why should he have problems with abortion and homosexuality?

 

Not sure, but most Christians I know have a big problem with abortion and gay men and women. But I get your drift.