Swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults

I didn't suggest you do anything...the facts are the predictions from americans of gloom and doom/societal/economic collapse when things aren't done as they are in the usa do not hold water...

 

Because in high demand industries we need C students just as much as we need A students.

 

No body WANTS to do it, but the reality is not everyone is born into a rich family, so it's either do it, or suffer your choices.

Taking from those who do to give to those who do not requires a society doctrine and government other than what we have and what the founders envisioned.

Apparently some would rather it go to something else, and some would not.

I'm being honest, but you're not...sigh, really?

 

I definitely could not have gotten through school without the government assistance that was provided to me. And I am not a janitor. I'm a software engineer.

 

IF you saddle yourself ONLY with a minimum wage job. The fact is, well, it might be more difficult to get them now (but that's due to a whoooolllleee different reason), there are more jobs that pay more than minimum wage than do. Did you know that only around 2.5% of ALL hourly wage earners in this country actually work for minimum wage?

Hell, I worked part time at Home Depot 10 years ago and they started me at $9.50 an hour...and not because I had any special skills they needed.

I know kids right now that are going to college, with no scholarships, no grants and no loans that aren't living with mommy and daddy and aren't getting their bills paid for by mommy and daddy. They work, oh yes they do....they wait tables. Somehow, they're making it. No, it ain't glamorous, but it's temporary and they're doing it.

 

You mean you couldn't have worked your way thru school like millions of other people have done?

Really?

Why not?

 

Learning disabilities meant I was spending 60-70 hours a week just studying to keep my head above the water. And another 16 hours a week at my internship. I did not have the time to give to another job without my grades suffering.

 

I'm glad you found the assistance you needed. Appears you've managed to overcome your learning disabilities... except for being a lib, I mean.

 

Yeah, and guaranteed a large percentage of the idiots who can't take care of themselves in the first place, would blow that $500 on gambling, drugs, electronics, appliances, rims, and other irrelevant crap, instead of investing it, paying off debt, using it for education, ect....you know, vital important things=)

Thats why poor people who win the lottery end up no better than they did before hand. It takes a number of years to totally blow it all, but they always do. Look at how many sports stars making millions go bankrupt. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE, unless you're missing brain cells? ESPN did a fabulous story on it. These people are truly complete morons. You just can't believe how dumb they are. So physically gifted but so completely brain dead.

 

All you "where are my handouts?" losers should immigrate to Switzerland. Of course, the likelihood of them actually excepting you is just about zero as their naturalization rules are very strict and they certainly aren't looking for an influx of deadbeats.

 

What does their welfare go to?

Skills are greater then short term cash for sure.

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Welfare states can afford open immigration. If only the democrats understood this.

 

Maybe it would be cheaper setting up a national health service for the poor and give everyone not working $500 a month while encouraging communities provide minimalist housing say $35 a week for these people or with meals $75 a week with a cost of living adjustment on the base amount. End food stamps, section eight and most of the rest. If people want to work they could likely earn more and could stay in the low cost housing at those prices. Low enough not to incentivize staying on it but enough support to let people exist with basic human comfort.

 

In order to give to one you must take from another. The Swiss pass this and I bet their businesses will be producing somewhere else.

 

You expect others to do the same? You expect them to work 75 hours a week just to get something that many countries like Finland give away for free (Finnish universities even pay for books).

If one must work 75 hours a week just for the very basics of life, then there is a significant problem. Do you think you could have went to any Ivy League school even working that much? After all, hard work will by anything you need, right?

It's quotes like this that make me like like socialism more and more. We do not live in a meritocracy where anyone can get ahead with hard work. We're not all born equal, no matter what any document states.

 

That's a big "if". I think much of clasic liberalism (A branch of today's Conservatism) simply doesn't think a hugely centralized government gigantic government can ever accomplish what you describe.
They're probably right. Under greater centralized government, the USA has gone from being the greatest creditor in the world the brokest nation in history.

But the USA is sitting on something much more valuable than oil: terrific human capital. That too is wealth that could be shared. I just think it is bound to fail in a quiet manner. So quietly I think most people will not realize how much we have lost.

 

I said nothing about having it handed to you. My only comment was it was much more difficult, and not as many opportunities, and that is the truth.

Government meddling is why the rate of tuition is so high. In fact government meddling is why the cost of living is so high. Don't tell me what I think, you sound retarded making idiotic assumptions.

If you are starting out with no skills that is all you get, you don't saddle yourself with anything you take what is available in this economic environment. Why kill yourself doing construction work as a helper for minimum or just above when you can zombie your way through the work day at Wallyworld or Macky'D's for the same wages?

I've got a news bulletin for you too, anyone making under $10 an hour or less is working for an established frozen wage agreed on by businesses. There are very few companies that give raises based on initiative these days. You can work your butt off for a little over minimum or you can just do what is expected of you and make the same thing. Businesses and greedy executives have created this phenomenon. So instead of having go-getters, who show initiative and help make the business more money, you get a work force that doesn't care any more about the business than the business does about your employees or the communities they thrive in.

 

I find it interesting how the complaints always immediately jump to ivy-league schools when talking about education. Ivy league schools have always been for the extremely talented or extremely rich. Complaining that the average person can't afford one is like complaining that the average person can't afford a 50 room mansion in Miami and a 40 foot yacht. Just like those things, ivy-league schools never have been for everyone.

As for going to a regular school, community college costs about $3,000 per year for tuition, fees and books. Community college is for the person who has to pay his own way through school. A reasonably hard working person can save $250 a month, even on minimum wage, so they could pay for it. When I was in college, I shared an apartment with three other students, so my rent was very low. I lived off sandwiches and Ramen, and got by just fine. A student today could still do this, and thus could afford to make it on his own if necessary. He could even transfer to a state university after two years. Doing this would rack up some school loans, but he would end up with a degree from a full university and would have minimal debt when he graduated.

Still, the thing I noticed more in your post was the rejection of the idea of working 75 hours a week during the summer to save money. If you actually do this, you gain far more than just the money that comes from those jobs. You gain a good work ethic, something that will help you succeed throughout your life. I have worked a LOT of 75+ hour weeks during summers when I was in high-school and college, and many times since then. Sometimes that is what you have to do to succeed in life. Being willing to work like that when necessary separates the winners from the losers, the successful from the unsuccessful and the industrious from the lazy. If you aren't willing to work long hours to better yourself, why would any employer ever expect you to be willing to work hard for him and his company? Thus why would he hire you over the guy who actually did this kind of work?

So, in short:
- Referencing the cost of an Ivy-League school is not a legitimate argument for the claim that a person can't make it through college on their own.
- Being unwilling to do the work involved isn't support for the claim that a person can't make it through college on their own.
- The work involved in paying your own way through college has more benefits than just paying for college.

 

Ivy-league schools are a good example of exclusion. Only the rich or minorities with good grades can get into these schools. Everyone else is excluded. Since the best jobs go to Ivy league graduates, they are also excluded from those jobs. Egalitarianism be damned.

There are only so many hours per day. You think they should go to classes and do homework while working "reasonably hard". Not everyone is capable of doing that. Many people are in massive debt just to afford the basics.

Why stop at 75 hours per week. Since working hard builds character, force everyone to work 100 hours per week. Then they'll be superhuman - industrious and decent Americans. Think of how happy and healthy everyone will be when they work 100 hours per week -- especially single mothers. Idle hands are the devil's tool!

That wasn't the point of my post at all. My point all along is that we live in an exclusionary society of haves and have-nots. Groups of people are excluded from certain institutions, decreasing their chances of success. As I stated, the USA is not an egalitarian society. It's not even a meritocracy.

QUOTE=hiimjered;1063182615]
- Being unwilling to do the work involved isn't support for the claim that a person can't make it through college on their own.[/quote]

I never stated that a person can't make it through college on their own. I'm stating it's very difficult to do if you work full time or don't receive grants or loans.

Yeah. Like being dirt poor and having $10 in credit card debt when you finish because you had to buy books and clothes with credit. Again, there is this disingenuous notion that hard work always pays off. You've taken it one step further and seem to be claiming that it affects the mind or soul or something.

 

don't think so, most executives are not after the money, they want the power, money they already have, and $185,484 per year.is still a lot of money

for every $1 more they paid the least payed, they could add $19 an hour to their own pay, my guess is they would pay their lowest paid employees more


.

 

you don't have to go to an Ivy League school to be successful. They can pick and choose anyone they want. Private university.

You can do just fine in life with a state college education.... and yes, people can afford that.

poor economic choices... I lived on min wage for a year.... I acquired ZERO new debt. I also didn't insist on buying the fanciest new gadgets, or game consoles... or go upside down on new loans to get a new car.

and blaming the kid thing on why you can't go or don't have the time/money..... not my fault. a .25 condom prevents that, or simply don't screw. Sorry, with sex comes responsibilities and economic costs.

I worked 60 h0ours a week and went to class. Now, with online classes, its' even EASIER to fit classes in because you're not locked into a certain time and your job doesn't have to work around blackout times.

unless that single mother was raped and had the kid.... or her hubby died prematurely.... I have no sympathy for her perdicament.... She chose to have sex.

now, with that said... when I met my single mother girlfriend... she was in graduate school, all while working a full time teaching job for 50+ hours a week.

I never claimed America was equal either. the choice is yours... you either let life slap you around like a bish.... or you better yourself.

I didn't get accepted into those prestigious universities either. So I just worked harder.

I agree.... if it was easy.... everyone would be a college graduate....

I am still paying back student loans.... but I'd rather pay back my student loans for life, and make a good living, than not have a student loan and still be flipping burgers....

Hard work doesn't garantee success... there is a lot that goes into it. Life/career planning helps. Having a backup plan helps.

going through life blindly and hoping for the best is not a good plan....