The case for Russia collusion against the Democrats

The Trump Tower meeting was at least attempted collusion, but it probably wasn't successful. Hilary paid some one who paid someone etc, who paid a British national who questioned Russian sources. It is fishy, and it deserves to be investigated, but the evidence so far on the table says they aren't the same thing at all. There is no public evidence that Hilary even knew Steele or any other foreign national had been hired. We, so far, have no evidence that anyone reached out to the Clinton campaign and explicitly offered the opportunity to collude with a foreign power (a hostile one at that) and the Clinton campaign pursued it. With the Trump campaign, that's exactly what we have. Again, it may not have been successful, but they were offered the chance to collude and they pursued it. That alone could result in conspiracy charges. If the Clinton campaign is guilty of the same, and they very well could be, then we still don't have the evidence for it. We do for the Trump campaign.

 

Whoa. Talk about left wing distortions and lies. The lawyer said she had "dirt". She never once claimed to have "stolen private communications" as a pretext to meeting. That's a lie. Secondly, there was never an agreement to relieve sanctions on anyone. The Magnitsky Act was sprung at the meeting which Don Jr. wasn't even familiar with at the time. The Russian lawyer had no dirt....or had no dirt willing to share. When they realized they had been scammed the campaign immediately ended the meeting. No agreements, no followups, no exchange of money or dirt (let alone anything illegally obtained). A 20 minute meeting that proved absolutely worthless is what you call "collusion". How pathetic is that?

All the questions have been asked of the Trump campaign and all the answers given. Nothingburger. Meanwhile, the Russian lawyer met with Glenn Simpson right before and right after the meeting. The same Simpson getting a fat check from the Clinton campaign and who was caught partying with Adam Schiff in Aspen, CO. Yeah, lets investigate collusion. Yet, you are scared sh itless of what that would reveal. Just like your ilk fought the investigation to find out who paid for the dossier.

 

Eh, no. The promise wasn't about "dirt." Here's what was offered:

"The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump

Too bad Jr tried claiming (in communication authored by his father . . . who later lied about orchestrating it) that the entire meeting was about the Magintsky Act to begin with.

Even if that's true, conspiracy charges wouldn't require that. And she claims that she did hand over a file.

Maybe, but taking the meeting in the first place is a problem.

Maybe, maybe not. You are taking the word of people who have lied about literally every other aspect of the meeting and who tried to hide its existence. Regardless, even your own account could still constitute criminal conspiracy.

You have a very strange -- I would say desperate -- definition of a "nothingburger" that has little bearing in reality.

 

You claimed it was "stolen communications". That was a lie. It was the claim of dirt through claims of evidence of Clinton illegal activity. There was never the suggestion by them that they had something they obtained through nefarious activities.

The entire meeting was a pitch about the Magnitsky Act. The pretext was having evidence of Clinton crimes. The meeting itself, however, had none of that.

Yeah, a file about the Magnitsky Act. Good lord. And a conspiracy requires an "agreement". There was no agreement. They were duped. Only mentally ill left wingers could call getting duped as conspiratorial crime. Lol.

I regard 20 minute meetings that don't exchange anything, agree on nothing, and result in zero folluwup or action as nothingburgers. TDS sufferers may not agree.

I noticed how you ignored Glenn Simpson's peculiar behavior with regards to this meeting. Lol.

 

You either haven't read my posts, you don't know what a "lie" is, or you are creating inventions of your own. I said no such thing. Please try telling the truth about my posts.

I repeat: "
The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump"

That's what the meeting was about. If you are going to pretend to be interested in addressing the facts, then address that fact. I won't hold my breath.

That wasn't the pretext, and that looks like a later lie constructed by Trump (who lied about being involved in said construction). But of course you will never address that.

Hooray! The closest thing so far to addressing facts!

We don't know that for sure. You are trusting people who lied about every other detail of the meeting. The lawyer says she shared documents.

No, that wasn't what she said. Try again.

Yes?

This "answer" reflects a lack of homework.

Which has nothing do with whether or not there was conspiratorial crime . . . at least not for anyone who even vaguely understands what a conspracy is. Sorry if you don't.

It is always adorable when non-debaters try to substitute rational debate with lols, but no, your "argument" makes no sense. Getting duped is not an elimination of conspiracy. Never has been. At any point in legal history. Ever.

We don't know that nothing was exchanged (the lawyer says something was), something was already agreed on (the meeting itself, alone grounds for conspiracy). Reality DS sufferers may not agree.

Because it was a desperate, pathetic scramble to change the subject, lol. Try rationality next time. Hint: half-assed whataboutism isn't a real argument.

 

Because of Obama's weak foreign policy?

 

No. Both met with foreign nationals who promised dirt on their political opponents. The difference was the Dems paid Steele. The lady who the Trumpers met was a private citizen and not a representative of a government (just as Steele used to work as a spook for MI6), there was no information obtained by stealing private communications. I think you must comprehend the Trump Tower meeting for what it actually was and not what you wished it to be.

 

So you go an entire rant to speculate there was more to the actual meeting then what EVERY source that was there actually says there was? ROFL

Face it. It was a nothingburger. No agreements. No money exchanged. No information or dirt exchanged. No followup. Nothing. To conspire you've got to first AGREE. None of the electronic communications and none of the people present said that happened.

As for the Glenn Simpson meetings, we don't have an answer because Simpson won't talk about it. I'm sure it's all a very strange coincidence and the Trump Tower meeting never came up, right? Just like the Clinton campaign never paid for the phony dossier. *chuckles*

Only one campaign paid for Russia government souced political propaganda.

Only one campaign received Russian government sourced political propaganda

Only one campaign had their allies in the intel agencies take the dirt they paid for and use it as a basis to spy on their political enemies. That is much like a left wing banana republic.

Now in light of all these FACTS there is only ONE campaign that could have colluded with the Russians. Yet, no investigation. As John Dowd recently claimed, this is the biggest political witch hunt and travesty in American history.....and Dowd is in position to know that.

Disgusting.

 

And its only costing you a trillion+ a year. Leave the bill for the kids and get while the getting is mediocre (unless you are already richer than stink).

 

The only sources you are willing to listen to are the ones who tried to cover up the existence of the meeting in the first place, who lied about what it was about, who lied about who was there, etc. And I haven't speculated about anything. What we know about is bad enough and could spell legal trouble.

They were offered the chance to do something illegal and they pursued it, taking the step of setting up a meeting. Criminal conspiracy charges don't require completion.

Non sequitur.

The lawyer says that isn't true, that she did provide a file with financial dirt on Clinton.

They were offered the chance to do something illegal and they pursed it. Sorry if the facts are inconvenient for your politics, but it doesn't stop them from being facts.

Complete nonsense, and not even well-constructed nonsense. The Clinton campaign should be investigated for using Steele, who is a foreign national himself, but there is no evidence anywhere that they paid the Russian government.

If you would like to talk about actual facts, only ONE campaign that we know of was expressly offered the opportunity to collude with a foreign government, and only ONE campaign that we know of pursued that offer. Period. These are objective facts. Again, whether or not they offend your politics doesn't matter.

The Clinton campaign, as I've said dozens of times now, should have been investigated too, but there is way, way more damning evidence against the Trump campaign, even just looking at the Trump Tower meeting alone.

His position doesn't erase the idiocy of his remark.

The only thing disgusting here is the way the "law and order" party is flagrantly abandoning concern for either.

 

Why, your not gonna mention untold gazillions America is wasting on Israel

Hey, did you hear about latest outrage, Israel is aspiring to land on the Moon! Using American taxpayers dollars, no doubt!

 

You mean all that cash that was given them to buy american weapons and share enhancements?

But I get you'd rather give your taxpayer money to multi millionaires and billionaires and corporations. Why have them pay to play at the mega rich level. Its such a disincentive for them to accumulate more (which I believe is entirely the point and motivation when you are that rich, no?)

 

No my friend; I’m just happy for Israel to be the only 4th country in the world prod to land (Hopefully) on the moon

But I’m sure you do not share my happiness.

 

The "only sources I'm willing to listen to"? I've listened to EVERY source that attended that meeting and went on the record. They all say the SAME THING. No dirt exchanged on Clinton, no deals, no agreements, no money exchanging hands, no followup. Your spinning your wheels here because you can't get past that fact.

Conspiracy charges FIRST require an agreement to do something. That's what a conspiracy IS. Can't conspire without it. I know, tough concept. You can't seem to grasp it, though. Someone offering to show you something and you checking it to see if it's real or junk isn't a
criminal act. Wow.

Liar. She never did any such thing. She had no dirt on Clinton. This is the lawyer's EXACT quote: "I never had any damaging or sensitive information about Hillary Clinton. It was never my intention to have that."

Ooooo.....what a conspiracy. Keep banging your head against the wall trying to make collusion real here. The only thing you're getting out of it is brain damage.

I have no idea if they paid the Russian government. I never claimed that. Unlike you, I never speculate. I said that Christopher Steele got a fat check on a money trail that leads directly back to Hillary Clinton. Fact. Christopher Steele claimed he got the propaganda from government sources deep inside Russia. Fact. Christopher Steele, a foreign national, was trying to meddle in our election when he was trying to peddle the anti-Trump propaganda to media outlets in the United States before the election even though the FBI had admonished him previously not to do so. Fact. None of the collusion allegations in the dossier have ever been corroborated. Fact. Hillary's allies in the intel agencies used the dossier as justification to spy on and investigate Hillary's political enemy. Fact.

Christopher Steele should be indicted just like the 13 faceless Russians for election meddling.....and the whole Hillary-DNC-Fusion GPS-Christopher Steele-Russia government string should be investigated. There are a lot of things that smell bad here. But, where is the investigation? Corrupt Dems are going to protect their own.

Yeah, because TDS sufferers posting online know more than the guy right in the middle of the witch hunt passing evidence and documents back and forth..Nice try. ROFL.

Biggest political witch hunt in the history of our country. That's a damning admission by a man who would be in a position to know and who has since removed himself so he can talk freely about it.

 

I can tell that few actually read the article I started this thread with:

 

Still just as chuckleable as when you started the thread.

 

Partisan hackery

 

Lefties like to deflect from the truth. When facts start flying lefties inevitably start crying.

 

I'm a lefty. There are hacks on both sides.

 

There you go being reasonable again.

 

It's a hoax.

 

It is only a hoax if you are willing to ignore the evidence that he has been systematically destroying our alliances, fostering division within the country, and ballooning our national debt.

 

Which has what to do with the hoax?

 

"there is no evidence anywhere that they paid the Russian government."

Blatant strawman destroys credibility.

 

Oh sorry, I thought the hoax was that Trump was a traitor. Which Trump hoax were you talking about.