The European / Syrian Refugee crisis

The problem with you and your side and your "feelings" is that you arbitrarilly want to assign blame at a handpicked point in the timeline of events that suits your feelings, and then of course responsibility. I like how you start the clock at Americas response to being attacked, as if nothing happened before that and this was the start of everything.

Keep in mind, America didnt wake up one day and say Hey, lets go attack the Middle East. No. People from the Middle East attacked us, and killed a few thousand Americans. We responded, and now WE are to be responsible?

This is like blaming the dog who got kicked for the kickers injuries when the dog bites back. It's a foolish mentality, but what can you expect from the "feelings" base.

We were attacked by people from the Middle East, they brought this situation upon themselves. People need to be made to realize when you attack America, it's going to be bad for you and your neighborhood. Thats war bwk. Dont want the chaos that comes with it, dont attack your superiors.

The responsibility for these refugees lies in that region, let them take them all. We don't need to take any, and we shouldn't.

You and yours are a problem today. This feelings based mentality is ruining our nation. Give a slice of America to this group because we feel sorry for them...give another slice of America to that group because we feel sorry for them....etc etc etc...sooner or later you've given away too much of your nation.

No thanks. America doesnt need further dilution, or 10,000 more Muslims who may or may not really be refugees and might have a chip on their shoulder against America. Our leaders need to put Americans above and beyond the rest of the worlds people. If our leadership puts others on par with their own people, then they arent fit to elad America. There is no need to put American lives and safety at risk by bringing in these people simply because you "feeeel bad".


Feelings have a purpose, but thought is needed now.America is damaged and importing more third worlders, (Some who may be imposters and many who may hate us) is not going to help us. It might help some of them...but thats the entire point. They need to come second. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

America needs to take American people , their concerns and their safety first and foremost.



Also, as an aside. When you have to reword things in response...you've admitted you lost that point.


Above you are now trying to falsely say I claimed we picked up "everyones" dirty laundry, when I made no such claim. My post, (Which I clearly substantiated with fact, not feelings) said this :

Note the difference? It's a HUGE difference don't you think? Perhaps someone will come in and "bail you out". Perhaps you should put the call in for backup, as you're not doing too well here when you have to take such liberties.

My argument is so easy to destroy hahahaha.

 

Yep.

People were warned about the power vacuum, but we went and removed our troops under Obamas watch. He was so unconcerned, he even referred to them as a JV team, showing us all he didnt think much about them and their possible threat.

 

Handpicked point in time? Feelings? That is hilarious. First off, the hand picked time was picked by people who need to be convicted for war crimes for getting us involved in a war based on a lie. Secondly, I don't need feelings to scrutinize facts.

And that attack was never tied to Saddam Hussein. It was forced by means of lying.

[qwuote]Keep in mind, America didnt wake up one day and say Hey, lets go attack the Middle East. No. People from the Middle East attacked us, and killed a few thousand Americans. We responded, and now WE are to be responsible?[/quote] Oh yes we did. You need to sift through a few history books to understand we are responsible for everything. I've given several history lessons on here before, of which I've received nothing but crickets.

I would expect the ignorant base to be a little less ignorant of the facts.

Yeah, folks from Saudi Arabia who had nothing to do with Saddam. Your history is too far off the mark to mount an intelligent informed debate over the matter.

Except for one thing. Know who your enemy is instead of inventing lies to got to war with those who had nothing to do with it, while we secure those oil fields.

Wrong once again. You have a problem with tunnel vision logic. Right and wrong has one meaning for you. Whatever is good for me, is what is considered right. And that is the big problem with the Republican party. And that's a big mistake. That attitude will bury the partyin the end. In some ways it already has.

There are those simple things in life that are universally understood, while some choose to ignore. It's knowing right from wrong. Some choose to take the right side, while others conveniently take the low road, and choose the wrong way. Let your conscience be your guide. Too bad many have decided not to use that guide.

Like I said before, when you ignore history,with our tainted past, and use that past to continue business as usual, even today, you are ignoring the fundamental problem that if we don't find a way to stop taking over everyone's land, their resources, their governments, their politics, and their future, these problems only become worse. We created the huge illegal problem in Central and South America. We created the problems in the ME by opening the gate for religious unrest among the many religious factions by breaking those groups up and creating conflict within the entire region. And it's just because of our appetite for their resources.

No, it isn't much of a difference, because most of those countries do not come with dirty laundry. The ones we should have been picking up for, mostly were ignored.

 

I think the bolded explains everything we need to know from you. America is always at fault mentality, got it.

 

Molly David, Bush mistakenly invaded Iraq and his generals made some stupid decisions, including firing the miltiary and the police etc. However, by Obama's own admission when he tried to take credit, Iraq was relatively stable again. We should have kept an occupying force in country for a generation at least, but Obama chose to abandon Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama also ignored the potential effects of regime change in the Middle East, and he mocked the upstart ISIS organization. He drew red lines which were ignored.

The chaos has many causes, but Obama and others are immediately responsible for the migrants flooding Europe. If you voted for him, you share responsibility for the dead and migrating people. You, not I share some of the responsibility. What are you going to do as penance? Make better voting choices?

 

bwk, if Bush lied, so did most of the world's intelligence agencies, Hillary, Kerry, Bill, and most of the Democratic party leadership. They voted for war too. Obama is a noted liar, and his foreign policy is a shambles. Blaming Bush for Obama's mistakes is getting old.Even if we assume Bush lied to invade Iraq, years have passed. Obama has had time to correct the mistake, but conditions have deteriorated even more. Are we to believe Obama is so incompetant he couldn't fix mistakes during almost two terms? This belongs to Obama and the Democrats now. If you voted for those people, you share some of the blame for the chaos. You should be asking for our forgiveness.

 

I rest my case then. No counter arguments of substance, to the facts I presented = game over, for you.

 

They voted for war under not only false information, but the real information was withheld. That's the big difference, and boy is that a difference.

Not hardly! He just pulled off his signature piece of foreign policy that the Right wouldn't have done for a hundred years. Sounds more like you are lying to yourself.

Except you have it backwards. Tell us, explain how this became Obama's fault and not Bush?

There is no assume. It is an established fact. And you are contradicting yourself, while we haven't even got started yet. "Blaming Bush for Obama's mistakes", while telling us in the next sentence, " even if we assume Bush lied" . Lol! Dude, you need to get your stories straight.

The mistake was going there to start with, which Obama not only did not have control of, but we do not own or dictate activities of the many religious factions we broke up during that conflict. We created a cocktail of unrest and religious instability, the likes the ME hasn't seen in decades. The U.S. owns this problem, not just the Democrats. And we need a pro active push to bring to trial Bush and Cheney for war crimes while they catered to the rich oil czars, who are behind all of this.

 

I didn't vote for for Obama second time around but regrettably did the first time. However, I still hold the Bushes mostly responsible for the ME mess. Someone commented that US has not held itself responsible for any of the messes it has created around the world in its quest for dominance of world oil. Its time US owned up to its responsinilities in the ME. Obama may or not be responsible for some, he is after all the President and everything that goes on now is his problem. But he is only trying to clear up the messes left behind and maybe not doing a great job at that, but probably the best he can in the dire circumstances left by the Bush/Cheney debacles.

 

Unless the video of the sister to the father of the drowned little boy is a fake, she states that he was going to Europe to get dental work done. He had already been refused asylum in Canada (which is interesting, because how many asylum seekers does Canada reject anyway--0?) and was on his way to Greece FOR DENTAL CARE. Facts are facts. Just because they don't fit with your version of the poor, poor, displaced migrant fleeing war and poverty, doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

Interesting-especially as without immigration there would be no America...

 

And one example of 'fakery' doesn't automatically lump every refugee into one, convenient conservative category, does it? Enjoy your nice, safe Syrian vacation. No problems with risking beheading or immolation there...

 

You were the second person to notice and confirm your case had been rested.

 

Its like that with liberals; they can bring up past grievances and use them as excuses for all eternity - but if you're conservative the past is not anywhere near as accesible.

For example, iran is allowed by the left to bring up the dispatch of mossadegh in 1953 as an excuse for its monstrous government today in 2015, but if a conservative mentions that south korea was a dictatorship in the 1980s and formed a successful democracy - you get silence from the liberals. Liberals are allowed to use grievances from 1,000 years ago to justify and excuse away bad behavior by their pets, conservatives have no such luxury.

 

What responsibility? The Muslims have created discord for centuries and can't take care of even their own. It's always something with them. Always. The Dark Ages are in their rear view mirrors and they hate that fact.

 

Interesting how the left like this exonerates iran, who had the primary responsibility for de-stabilizing iraq after the US overthrew saddam.

When the US conquered germany and japan and rebuilt both countries, without the cancerous affects of an external party like iran or russia interfering, the countries rose to become great again. Why can't those on the left admit iraq would have turned out far better had the cancerous dictatorship of iran destroyed iraq?

The same can be said for syria; had iran not compelled assad to mass slaughter every sunni to stay in power, and agreed to real reforms we would have not have 300K + dead there, and a much smaller refugee flow. Much of the problems of the mideast can and should be laid at the feet of iran.

 

I was going to ignore this post as I generally do of the one-sided, infantile, anti-american drivel one reads frequently on web forums, but I'll hold my nose, put my wadders on, and jump in...

I'll keep it simple for all of the anti-american trolls like you and the others permeating this thread; how exactly is it the US' fault about ISIs and the syrian war? Assad and iran were sending in thousands of fighters and massive amounts of weapons to de-stabilize iraq, yet we see you not mention a word about that.

Nor did I read you mention anywhere how the US invasion led to an entirely new force of muslims that crossed borders across the mideast - how exaclty did the US invasion cause that?

Given that the US has had a hands-off iraq and syria policy for almost the entire time obama has been in office, and ISIS did not even rear its head for almost TEN years AFTER the US attacked iraq, and the syrian uprising took place EIGHT years after the US invasion, why don't you enlighten us as to how precisely the US is responsible for either.

Or as the other poster said, in your parallel universe, the US = bad, and that is as far as your thought process can travel.

 

Let's stick to facts. When you flee from Syria... well everybody in the entire world who aint a full retard knows that there is a total war going on by multiple parties for 5 years straight, while some foreign nations invade it to drop some more bombs. That place is shot to bits. The violence is present in almost the entire country. Those people are not poor,.. well some are. But mostly,... they are fleeing for the violence. It is as simple as that. There hardly is a place on this planet where the war is less present than in Syria. So it's just rather retard to claim that those people are not fleeing from the violence.

 

Here's a concept. Stay and fight for your country. Amazingly simple instead of mooching off the rest of us.

 

They only accept the ones who have actually applied for asylum
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34142695

 

Yeah, those immigrants were the working people called the "Pioneers."

 

?
... and Hillary and the rest of the nations intelligence was all wrong too?

What happened was Iraq want to pretend to especially Iran, that Saddam was strong and on the ready as it tried to access more oil rights, like it did in Kuwait.
The Iran vs Iraqi war was still festering as it had for year on end.
Saddam was hiding the fact that all he had was WMD that were Gas, (which we did find).

Russia and France had Saddam believing no war was really coming.
Those two were doing much Black Market business there, as Saddam traded his Oil for Food to them, instead of the people.

 

Why did we overthrow Saddam? I'll tell you why. Bush I had oil deals with Kuwait while Kuwait was slant drilling for oil on Iraqi soil. Bush I said to Saddam, do what you have to do. I'm not getting involved. Saddam invaded kuwait, Bush I lied, and the rest of that story is history. The second Bush and Cheney had the same agenda. Cheney, before he was elected received a $14 million dollar bonus from Haliburton. Now I wonder why they gave him that? Iran at the time was seizing an opportunity "we" put, right in their faces. We have no one to blame but ourselves, once again.

What's it to you? What business is it of ours either way? Why are we there? We never had any business over there to begin with. Oil profits are the only real reason we are there.

If we hadn't gone over there, the conversation between Assad and Iran would have never happened to begin with.

 

It is in the national interests of the US to make sure that tyrannical, cancerous regimes do not attack our allies whom we make a living selling our products to. Isolationism did not work in the past, and why people still think it would work today - when the world is even more tightly integrated - I cannot fathom.

This might be a shock to some of you, but not every war or conflict is caused by the US, or has the US pulling the strings behind the scenes. Many americans may have hoped assad was overthrown for sending jihadists in to attack american troops in iraq, but that does not mean the US was behind the syrian uprising.

 

That's not too smart.

Why are they destabilizing Iraq? Take another wild guess. Because they can, and they know it. The new regime is vulnerable, weak, inexperienced, and they are sick of a war we started. We broke up the Sunni and Shiite, and that created some golden opportunities for a takeover after we left, from a war we should have never started, but did. And it was all created, based on a lie. We created the perfect storm, because we have a different agenda. This has been a domino, going all the way back to the first Gulf war.

Same reason as I just explained. We created the vulnerability, the weakness, and the fire storm.

Being in denial of accurate information and the truth, will bury a person every time. We have a long history with Iraq. We killed hundreds of thousands there, we displaced nearly 2 million, we invaded them twice for oil, citing different reasons, which ended up being lies, and now, it is somehow a mystery to you how Iraq became vulnerable after we left. We'll, it's no mystery for me. First off, we to this day haven't a clue who our enemy really is, and secondly, if we were to actually find out who they are, we under estimate our opponents. They use time to fight their battles. And that is exactly what they did.

And I would challenge you to maybe take a look through you own glass house when it comes time to call others anti-american. To me, it's mighty anti-american to cover for those who create wars for profit in this country through lies, off the backs of our own dead GI's and hundreds of thousands of others, who have never done us any harm at all. That's anti-american.