The fog of war

That is what Trump wants us to believe. It is far from simple. The issues in the Middle East are extremely complex. Adding to the complexity, Trump's decision removed the U.S. as a broker for Middle East peace. Russia and Putin are filling the void left by the U.S. Complicating the issues is an aggressive Iran who is supporting the murderous Syrian dictator, Assad, and the terrorist acts committed by ISIS and Al Qaeda.

What do you say about all this? What Trump wants you to say. "It's really very simple."

Get your head out of the sand.

 

I am reminded of one of the original Star Trek episodes where our heros come across a civilization that has settled into a computerized substitute for nuclear was. When the computer says the enemy has scored a hit, all the people in that area must walk into suicide chambers. When Kirk and Spock destroy those chambers, the combatants are faced with the reality of really going to war and decide to talk about peace.

Everybody walking around pretending that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel and can never be the capital of Israel and Israel has no right to exist and if they hold their breath and turn blue Israel will go away is sheer wishful thinking, denial of reality, and stupid.

 

No one has said any of those things, not on this thread, anyway. Using gross exaggeration of the views of others to make a point is infantile, foolish, and a sign of desperation.

BTW, I am a Star Trek fan, and I have seen that episode a few times. It was a great episode.

 

I provide a brilliant analysis of the situation, and a Trumpian provides us with cartoons.

 

A "Brilliant analysis".... is what an egotist thinks of their own opinion.

 

Jews are among the most strongly liberal, Democratic groups in U.S. politics. There are more than twice as many self-identified Jewish liberals as conservatives, while among the general public, this balance is nearly reversed. In addition, about seven-in-ten Jews identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party. Jews are more supportive of President Barack Obama than are most other religious groups.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/chapter-6-social-and-political-views/

This is why Democratic Presidents, Clinton and Obama, made campaign promises to the effect that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and we should move our embassy there. It can be compared to Trump's campaign promise to build a wall and have the Mexican government pay for it. They are campaign promises that, given current conditions, no one really expects them to happen.

Conservative Jews are generous with their donations to the GOP, so we have Bush making a similar promise along with Trump.

Since Jewish donors are active in both parties, Democratic and Republican lawmakers feel the need to keep them happy. Thus the 1995 Jerusalem Law, but they were quick to give Presidents an out, the waivers. This way, everyone is happy. the Jews got their Jerusalem Law and the May 2017 S.Res.167 - A resolution relating to the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and the relocation of the United States Embassy to Jerusalem. and Presidents got their out because they are solely responsible for foreign affairs, not Congress. That is according to our Constitution.

Again, given current conditions, no one thought any President would be foolish enough to actually unilaterally declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel, thus making that official U.S. policy.

Really, no one could possibly be that stupid.

 

Brilliant? Only in your mind, the cartoon clearly describes the facts, the Islamist will feel the same regardless of what or where the USA considers the capitol of Israel. The Jews could move to the middle of Mexico and the radical Islamist would do everything in their power to destroy them. Time for you to take a reality check.

 

How do you reconcile these two statements? Like another poster said If it quacks.

 

LOL. Wag the Dog? Once again I'm reminded on how much this resembles the Bill Clinton investigation and impeachment except all the players have changed sides. Bill couldn't keep his dick in his pants, lied about under oath and became embroiled in scandal. When a radical Islamic terrorist group in Afghanistan started causing problems and Bill wanted to do something about it, he was accused of "Wagging the Dog". Rather than growing a spine and do something anyway, he backed down and then punted to GW Bush. The result was 9/11.

Let's see what all the political BS spewing from both sides results for Americans in another 3-4 years.

 

So- you believe that a good president never does anything that someone with political power or terrorist ties won't like, because that would be stupid.
I would find it anyone would be so foolish to believe that such a policy would be anything less than stupid.

We elect leaders to make decisions- often ones that require more guts than the average voter is willing to lay on the line.

Imagine that we elect someone to drive the bus through dangerous mountain roads in a blizzard. Now imagine half the people in the bus micromanaging the driving from the back seat- screaming complaints, corrections, criticizing every bump or turn. That's what we have here- this is one of the many issues they decide are critical. It Trump showed up with an untied shoelace, it would be declared some kind of incompetency. And of course- any offense results in personal character assassination. Not disagreement, but "No one could possibly be that stupid". Funny- I see protesters proving that level of stupidity is widespread, every time I turn on the news.

I can only hope that you are such a bus driver or something similar in such a position, so you might have some inkling of just much more difficult the people who think that way make the job of leadership. There's a time to sit down, shut up and back your nation and leadership, send your letters, vote your conscience- but not attempt to wreck the bus because you have a tantrum and can't control yourself. The left is so unable to cope with the idea of loss that it is unable to do this on any issue- and everything that comes up is declared a crisis that will destroy planet earth because they didn't get their way. Small, spoiled, unthinking children whose parents failed miserably to raise responsible children able to discipline themselves. They shame us all.

 

Trump is doing what Alexander the Great did when presented with the Gordion knot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

 

I see Shanks is still vigorously excusing violence because Trump did something they dont like.


Just imagine if Americans acted like that.

 

So, Trump acknowledges reality and I'm foolish and desperate? Jerusalem IS the capital of Israel, and by acknowledging that fact, a bunch of people that are firing rockets at Israel, rioting against Israel and planning to wipe Israel off the map are going to start firing rockets at Israel, rioting against Israel, and plan to wipe Israel off the map? Oh, okay, I get it.

 

Bush illegally invaded a sovereign nation. The result was an eight-year disastrous war costing trillions and hundreds of thousands of lives.

Trump did his level best to incite North Korea. Then he made a unilateral decision regarding Jerusalem. He removed the U.S. as a broker for Middle East peace, angered our Arab allies in the fight against ISIS and Iran, and angered our allies.

Those are the last two Republican Presidents and the reason I said what I said.

 

If Trump hadn't opened his big mouth, Hamas would not have fired those missiles. If Trump hadn't opened his big mouth, people would not have died, people would not have been injured. Trump incited riots with his big mouth.

Now do you get it?

 

So what you're saying Hamas hasn't been firing rockets into Israel until the President moved the embassy?

"Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands[1][2][3][4] of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. From 2004 to 2014, these attacks have killed 27 Israeli civilians, 5 foreign nationals, 5 IDF soldiers, and at least 11 Palestinians[5] and injured more than 1900 people,[citation needed] but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace.[6] Medical studies in Sderot, the Israeli city closest to the Gaza Strip, have documented a post-traumatic stress disorder incidence among young children of almost 50%, as well as high rates of depression and miscarriage.["

 

This year alone BEFORE the President "opened his big mouth". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2017 Hamas will fire rockets into Israel regardless of where the capitol is.

 

From April to October, one rocket per month. None in November. In other words, harmless and no casualties, pointless, actually.

There have been a dozen rickets in the week following Trump foolish decision. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.828840

Then there were the violent protests caused by Trump.

Israeli Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Sunday he hoped the violent protests by Palestinians against US President Donald Trump’s decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital were coming to an end.

“Our hope is that everything is calming down and that we are returning to a path of normal life without riots and without violence,” Lieberman told an interviewer on Army Radio.


Violence erupted for a third day on Saturday in Gaza and the occupied West Bank in response to Mr Trump's announcement on Wednesday in which he overturned decades of US policy towards the Middle East.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ent-balfour-declaration-avigdor-a8101771.html

It is so typical of Trump supporters to just bury their heads in the sand and ignore reality. Just pretend it didn't happen. Then their argument is solid. Trouble is, Trump's decision caused violence and death and for rockets to fly. If you can't see that, you are blind.

 

I am talking about the past week. The week after Trump's decision. Do you have a reading problem?

 

Your statement and mine are not mutually exclusive even if you are trying to be a smartass. I merely pointed out that a lot more Palestinians are doing the dying rather that Jews.

Clinton, Bush, and Obama were obligated to make campaign promises regarding Jerusalem that they couldn't keep with sparking violence in the Middle East and isolating the U.S. See post #131. It was sorta like a President promising to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it. It is why the Jerusalem law in 1995 gave Presidents an out. No one expected any of these to make such a foolish decision.

But Trump made the foolish decision for two reasons, neither having anything to do with peace in the Middle East. That is the usual Trump B.S.

He made that foolish decision to satisfy his evangelical base and his Jewish donors. Well, guess what? The decision sparked violence and isolated the U.S.

Assuming you can read, your question is absurd.

 

Another who is confusing the past with the present. I offered this brief history as a background to our discussion, not the basis of a discussion. This discussion concerns the period after Trump's foolhardy decision and its repercussions.

 

I tend to think that a good President will not make a decision that will anger our Arab allies in the fight against ISIS and Iran, anger every ally we have, anger the majority of Americans, and isolate the U.S. and allow Russia to fill the void just to keep a campaign promise to his minority base.

I mean really, how stupid can you get?

 

Obviously stupid enough to let the fear inspired by the people who would destroy us dictate our decisions and actions.
I would consider that both stupid and cowardly, plus quite a few other things.

 

There were violent protests caused by violent protesters.

Any other interpretation has you rooting for blackmailers and abusers.

 

You act like these rocket attacks are new, they're not, Palestinians are like Democrats, perpetually p*ssed off you included. If Hamas would quit launching rockets into Israel your friends wouldn't be getting killed.