The Insidious Political Bifurcation of America

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Natty Bumpo, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    16,275
    Likes Received:
    4,479
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except there's no reason. Look at what's happened to the republicans and democrats? Those old school politicians are being kicked out and replaced by the new breeds. Hell, democrats used to believe in freedom of speech. Did the party change, or did the electorate change?

    The electorate changed, so the politicians changed. When that happens, the parties change in everything but name only.
     
  2. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    14,134
    Likes Received:
    9,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Those last ten states are telling us that we must resolve to spend more resources on education. Children in rural communities are being left behind, and that just isn't right. I know conservatives generally feel that the federal government is already too interfering and that states should control their own destinies, but maybe we need to make an exception where education is concerned.
     
  3. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    14,134
    Likes Received:
    9,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do the parties need fixing, or the voters? I don't mean that in a snarky way, but some people just don't bother to vote at all, much less register with a party.
     
  4. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    14,134
    Likes Received:
    9,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It sounds like you're trying to pick a fight. These are just facts, and they figure in to how regions across the country vote. No one is trying to point fingers at rural Americans or those without higher education, just saying those are factors in how we vote. And as I've always said, education and intelligence are not the same thing.
     
  5. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,746
    Likes Received:
    15,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Again, it has no bearing on the disparate voting patterns of the best-educated and the least-educated states, but please quote your specific reference to Republicans vs Democrats in that study. I cannot find anything regarding such a party-related disparity.

    Rather, the study and its predecessor assessed knowledgeability based upon the news sources relied upon:
    http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2012/confirmed/final.pdf

    Your subjective assessment aside, I never suggested that academic achievement correlates with "intelligence and common sense" in any manner.

    The fact that the Washington Times reported, "Democrats now more educated than Republicans, Pew survey finds" last year merely reflects the correlation between education and party preference. Did less-educated white Americans previously prefer the Democratic Party as better representing their perceived self-interests? Clearly.
     
    ImNotOliver likes this.
  6. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    14,134
    Likes Received:
    9,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The problem I have with the smaller parties is that they seem to want to skip paying their political dues and go straight to the White House. There are no really good grass roots movements with their platforms. Most Americans have no idea who they are or what they tepresent.

    They need to get elected to more local positions like city councils and mayorships, and start doing things with their ideals that appeal to people. From there, go to state legislatures, and on up the political ladder. You can't skip the bottom rungs of that ladder and expect to be successful.
     
    opion8d likes this.
  7. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,746
    Likes Received:
    15,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Academic excellence benefits the nation, and denying children access to it restricts the potential talent pool that makes a nation great. Besides which, those who attain bachelors and more advanced degrees generally have greater earning power and contribute more to the funding the government requires.
     
    Sleep Monster and ImNotOliver like this.
  8. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,746
    Likes Received:
    15,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have yet to see a Fairleigh Dickinson survey at any time suggesting an informational disparity between Democrats and Republicans as has been alleged.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  9. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27,473
    Likes Received:
    11,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You have to look at the individual questions and who answered them correctly. If you can't figure out which answers are correct, I can provide them. In each of the questions, a higher percent of republicans answered each question correctly than democrats.

    For example:
    Question K1, Correct answer: Yes. Democrat Correct 40%, Republican Correct 41%
     
  10. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,746
    Likes Received:
    15,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are actually alleging that a 1% disparity of over eight years ago, on one question, negates the current empirical reality that better-educated Americans prefer the Democratic Party and less-educated Americans the Republican Party? A study that concluded "there is something about watching Fox News that leads people to do worse on these questions than those who don’t watch any news at all"?
     
    Sleep Monster likes this.
  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,589
    Likes Received:
    17,140
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If asked most them after all the excuses are made just don't want to be bothered with the whole political process. You just can't make people care
     
  12. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27,473
    Likes Received:
    11,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not just one question. The republicans got each and every question correct more often than democrats. The chances of that happening randomly is 1/512,
     
  13. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But someone who went to college is more likely to know how to think and process information in a rational manner. This is why rural people tend to be closed-minded bigots and why educated people tend to be progressive.
     
  14. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27,473
    Likes Received:
    11,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And yet those ignorant republicans were better informed than democrats.

    In my experience, more highly educated people tended to more narrow minded than less educated people. They tend to concentrate on their areas of expertise rather than the broad picture.
     
  15. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We're talking informed voting. A PhD biologist is probably a more informed voter than the goof at the Trump rally chanting "Lock'r up!"
     
  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27,473
    Likes Received:
    11,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Did I also mention that the higher educated are more likely to be bigots, but do not realize it?
     
  17. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,737
    Likes Received:
    4,201
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    According to the study, the numbers are different.

    Number of overall questions answered correctly -- All 8 = 3%
    By Party Identification:
    Democrat Lean Dem Indep Lean Rep Republican
    5 7 2 3 2
     
  18. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,737
    Likes Received:
    4,201
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I can believe that.
     
  19. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27,473
    Likes Received:
    11,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not sure what you are talking about. There are nine questions.
    The straight odds for the same party getting all questions correct are one in two to the ninth power which is one in five hundred and twelve. There is not enough information there ti calculate the odds on each individual question and the total odds using all nine questions.
     
  20. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Messages:
    28,121
    Likes Received:
    19,405
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The important divide is over values. Just one example (there are hundreds of others):

    Conservatives believe America should be the land of equal opportunity.

    Liberals believe we should value equality of results.

    We can’t even agree on the meaning of simple words like “equality” and “marriage”. We are two separate cultures.
     
  21. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,737
    Likes Received:
    4,201
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    From my reading of the survey, two things stand out:

    1. Media sources focus on satisfying their audience, so the "news" is more bias confirmation than objective facts.
    2. At the time of the study, Fox News tended to have the lowest informed audience, but that doesn't mean the others were much better.

    This did not seem to be about partisan issues so much as about the sad state of media as a source of objective, factual information.
     
    garyd likes this.
  22. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,737
    Likes Received:
    4,201
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I believe this is the study? It shows 8 questions.
    http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2012/confirmed/final.pdf


    Edit--
    Also, my c&p didn't post as it was supposed to. The party affiliations each have one number showing the % of correct responses for all questions. So that would be Democrats -- 5% and Republicans -- 2%
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  23. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    5,864
    Likes Received:
    4,631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Success in life depends largely on your personal point of view. Read enough books and enough newspapers and periodicals and one either becomes a cynic or a realist.

    A young chap just starting in his after college career once asked me:
    Him: "Do you think I should get an MBA?"
    Me: "What do you want to become?"
    Him: "Well I want to be successful"
    Me: "That's pretty broad isn't it?"
    Him: "Okay, I want to end up in top management?"
    Me: "Like CEO?"
    Him: "Yes."
    Me: "Then don't waste your money on an MBA."
    Him: "Why not?"
    Me: "Because an MBA will fashion you as a caretaker, not a leader."
    Him: "So what then?"
    Me: "Work hard, stay loyal to your organization, and read every biography of highly successful men and women you can get your hands on. Especially read history and biographies of historically significant political leaders - presidents, senators congressmen and more. Read good literature and learn to write well. Read philosophy and the classics. In short order you will understand a lot about loyalty, dedication, and sacrifice. Subscribe to a national newspaper and some news periodicals. Make sense?"
    Him: "Okay."

    That's one kind of success and the final recommendation will serve in many occupations; agriculture, academic, religious, military and others. But that may not be for you. My point is that there are a lot of ways to measure intelligence and success. Pointing one's finger left or right, red or blue, doesn't make much sense in the overall scheme of things.
     
    garyd likes this.
  24. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27,473
    Likes Received:
    11,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  25. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,737
    Likes Received:
    4,201
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Page 8 lists the information I used.
     

Share This Page