The Jews as "God's Chosen." What, exactly, does it mean?

When Jesus said salvation is of the Jews, it means salvation is of the Jews. Yes, Jesus would be a part of that salvation as would the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant. As would the future promises of the Kingdom which are part of that Abrahamic Covenant. All of the Jews.

In John 4:22 when Jesus said to the Samaritian woman 'salvation is of the Jews', He was talking about His and the Jewish peoples worship. "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." Of course Jesus would be a Jew, because salvation and the promises of the seed were to be of the Jews. As were the promises of the land. And the blessings of the Kingdom. All aspects of salvation is of the Jews. Not just the seed promises.

No, Im not in error. The Church does not replace Israel. The Church is a separate Body of believers. And yes the Churches inheiritance is heavenly not earthly. Eph. 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:"

The Kingdom promises you cite in the Gospels are for Israel's role in that Kingdom. Not the Church. The Church doesn't start untill Acts 2. Christ came to the Jews as their King to fulfill those Kingdom promises to Israel. The Church does not replace Israel. It is another Body of believers.

Rom.9:6-9 is not saying if your a Christian then your Israel. It says they are not all Israel which are of Israel. Just because one is born of Abraham didn't make him of Israel. The one that is of Israel would be the one who was first a child of promise and then born in Israel. In other words, as verses 8-13 go on to explain, true Israel consists of the one born in Israel being a child of promise. It doesn't mean if your a Gentile Christian then your a Jew.

Your mistaken about the Covenants. There are several covenants. The Covenant which affects God work of Salvation is the Abrahamic Covenant, of which the New Covenant is simply a part of. And that is what the verse in Galatians is saying. The Law does not replace the Abrahamic Covenant. It is still in existance. The promises to the Jews have not been revoked.

Gal.3:13-17 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...That the blessings of Abraham might come on the Gentiles....Though it be but a man's covenant, ye if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto...Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made...And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

The Abrahamic Covenant still exists. The New Covenant does not replace it.

Gods promises to Israel under this Covenant are still in place and He will be true to them. The Church is a different Body being called out mainly of the Gentiles. And when God is finished gathering that Body, then He will take us home and begin working again with Israel.

Rom.11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until, the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Until.

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Afraid? As I said, prove me wrong.

Are you Christian? Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God in the flesh, and that salvation is found only in Jesus Christ?

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Rev.7:1-8 is clear. Twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel will make up the 144,000. Others are saved also at this time, 9-17, but these are not the 144,000. And neither are they the Church as the Church is already complete and gone. They are the tribulation saints.

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The Bible.

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And I have explained to you that it means that the Savior of mankind would come through the tribe of Judah.

Jesus is not just a part of it He is the whole of it. Scriptures don't tell us that we are to put our hope in the Jews......they rejected the Savior, remember? The Covenant that God made with Abraham is a separate Covenant that God made with his descendants. The Israelites were not promised salvation under the Covenant that God made with them. Their inheritance was physical and limited......they were promised a certain amount of land and prosperity in that land. But the Covenant that God made with Abraham is an eternal Covenant, which is why when the Old Covenant came to an end, at Jesus' death it did not abolished the Covenant with Abraham, because the Covenant with Abraham came before it. The Covenant with Abraham is by faith and not by race, which is why the scripture says that those who live by faith are children of Abraham.

Here's why Jesus told the Samaritan woman why they did not know what they worship.


John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what—The Samaritans believed in the same God with the Jews; but, as they rejected all the prophetical writings, they had but an imperfect knowledge of the Deity: besides, as they incorporated the worship of idols with his worship, they might be justly said to worship him whom they did not properly know. See the account of their motley worship, 2 Kings 17:26-34. But after Sanballat had built the temple on Mount Gerizim, the idolatrous worship of the Cutheans and Sepharvites, etc., was entirely laid aside; the same religious service being performed in the Samaritan temple which was performed in that at Jerusalem.

We know what we worship—We Jews acknowledge all the attributes of his nature, and offer to him only the sacrifices prescribed in the law.
Salvation is of the Jews—Εκ των Ιουδαιων εστιν, Salvation is from the Jews. Salvation seems here to mean the Savior, the Messiah, as it does Luke 2:30; Acts 4:12: and so the woman appears to have understood it, John 4:25. The Messiah was to spring from the Jews—from them, the preaching of the Gospel, and the knowledge of the truth, were to go to all the nations of the world. It was to the Jews that the promises were made; and it was in their prophetic Scriptures, which the Samaritans rejected, that Jesus Christ was proclaimed and described. See Isaiah 11:3.
— Adam Clarke's Commentary

Here is what Jesus said to the Jews that rejected Him.

Matthew 21:42-43 (BBE)
42 Jesus says to them, Did you never see in the Writings, The stone which the builders put on one side, the same has been made the chief stone of the building: this was the Lord's doing, and it is a wonder in our eyes?
43 For this reason I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and will be given to a nation producing the fruits of it.


Jesus was sent to preach the gospel to the Jews and Israel and He sent His disciples out as well to do the same......the kingdom was offered to them but they rejected it.


Matthew 15:24 (Darby)
24 But he answering said, I have not been sent save to the lost sheep of Israel's house.


Matthew 10:5-7 (ASV)
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


They rejected the kingdom but the Gentiles who heard it believed the message and accepted it. So they tuned to preaching it to the Gentiles. This is a fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of the kingdom of God being taken away from them and given to another Nation (Matthew 21:43).

Acts 13:46-48 (NKJV)
46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so the Lord has commanded us: 'I have set you as a light to the Gentiles, That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.' "
48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The Covenant with Abraham and the New Covenant are the same. Abraham lived by faith, and looked for a kingdom that God would set up. It’s the same kingdom that the Jesus preached and to which the saints will inherit when Jesus returns. Jesus told the disciples that each of the twelve would be a king of each tribe. It also says in Revelation that the saints will rule over the kingdoms of this world......they will rule with Jesus.

And Eph. 1:3 does not say our inheritance is Heaven....read it carfuly
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ; (Darby)

In other words, our Heavenly blessings is now it does not say will be, but HAS blessed us. The sentence is in the present tense not the future. It’s important to pay attention to grammar when reading the Bible. You are not going to find anywhere in the Bible where Heaven was promised to us.....guaranteed.

 

Ok. So show me what scripture that says this:"The 144,000 will be instrumental in preaching the gospel and save untold numbers of people during the last half of the tribulation."

Remember, you said your quote above came from the Bible. So go ahead and show me where it says that.

 

The notion about the 144,000 is straight out of Scofield..

 

You mean, "the Devil?!"

I see it as spiritual, and not 144K total of 'Super Jews."

12 x 12 x 1000 = those from: 12 tribes as of the foundation of Israel, and those of the 12 Disciples as the foundation of Jesus ministry, for to rule with Him for the 1000 yr millennium..??

But I'm open to other's thoughts...OD

 

And I have explained to you that salvation is more than Jesus coming from Judah.

The Abrahamic covenant is not separate from his decendants. The decendants of Araham come under that covenant. If the Abrahamic covenant is eternal which it is, how did Israel get replaced by the Church? Are you saying the Church is going to inheirit that land in Canan? The fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenat is not based on the faith of Abraham, but on the faithfullness of God. God said He would do it.

Yes, I know salvation is of the Jews. What I am saying is that salvation entails more than Jesus coming from the tribe of Judah. And all that it entails, is from the Jews.

Your verses do nothing to explain Romans 9:6-13.

No, the Abrahamic and the New covenant are not the same. If they are the same, why is another covenant, the New, needed?

Eph.1:3 says God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.

All the Churches blessings, inheiritance, is heavenly. Not earthly.

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No.. not the devil.

Its a symbolic number having nothing at all to do with Jews.

 

Lets get our 'demands' straight here. Where did the promise of a 'quote' come from? Remember, you said 'quote'. So go ahead and show me where this was promised?

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How is that?

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Scofield interprets the 144,000 as an actual number of survivng Jews, but its a symbolic number of redeemed souls ..

The Rapture, Arageddon, the invasion of Gog and Magog that drives Hal Lindesy, Hagee, LaHaye and those guys all comes from Scofield.. which is a very recent heresy.

 

Still leaning on the opinions of other people I see. In contrast, your interpretation is supposed to better than that of others?

 

Who's opinions?

Have you actually studied Revelation in its historical context?

 

That's your problem Margot. You're too sophisticated to view the Bible for anything other than it's historicity.

Revelation 7:4 (KJV 1900)
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Revelation 14:4 (KJV 1900)
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

Those people that you named. You are leaning on their opinion to act as a weapon against them when their opinions are placed in comparison to YOUR OPINION. You just can't seem to get away from those OPINIONS.

In direct answer to your question: YES!

 

You don't have to be "sophisticated" not to fall for the Scofield heresy...

Sealed .. means sealed for redemption... Redeemed..

These are the children of Israel who are baptized in Lord Jesus... its a message to the Jews in diaspora.. the congregants of the seven churches.

 

We are talking with posters who do not question the Scofield teachings.

 

These Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the Antichrist to perform their mission during the tribulation period (see Revelation 6:17, in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come). The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject Him and will complete His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel. All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27), and their mission is to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ.

GotQuestions.org

 

I think i see your problem with Scofield. It's not so much a heresy as you like to call it. It's fundamentalism that is a problem for you. And that's obvious.

 

And you specifically brought into that discussion, a comparison of opinions (yours and theirs) as a weapon against those people that you mentioned. BTW: Scoffield and the others that you specifically named, are not members of this forum. Just for the record, we were talking (you and I) about those that you named.

 

The Tribulation ended in 73 AD... a generation (40 years) after the crucifixion.. and it certainly was divine judgment.. famine, death, warfare and disease.

I know Daniel is confusing, but its very helpful to know when Daniel was written and that his prophesy was post facto.

 

That's your opinion and i don't buy it. But that's okay with me.

 

John Nelson Darby learned his theology from a teen aged girl who had a dream.. Have you heard of the Brethern?