The Jews as "God's Chosen." What, exactly, does it mean?

Why? Because he is showing that the Jews are no better than anyone else and is guilty of atrocities against others the same as others have?

 

But God has nothing for the Jews that is any different than He has done for everyone else. He promised a Savior that would come to save all people from their sins, and He did. God is no respecter of persons.

 

Thats a lie.

Quantrill

 

Everyone has the freedom to speak. Equating responding with being duped is ridiculous. You if you don't want to respond, don't.

Quantrill

 

Indeed we who hold to the prophetic portions of Scripture are products of studying the Bible. Indoctrinated.

And I agree, we don't know what yall are talking about. But, neither do yall.

Quantrill

 

Indeed salvation is to all. But, the Jews are the chosen people from whom God brought this salvation.

To say God is no respecter of persons does not apply. Its true, but it doesn't change the fact that the Jews are specifically chosen to be the priestly nation over the world.

Salvation is of the Jews. And it is offered to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. Correct?

Quantrill

 

Salvation is of the Jews means that salvation of mankind came through Judah.......Jesus was a Jew. But Jews were the chosen people under the Old Covenant. You will never read in the New Testament were it says the Jews are the chosen people. In the New Testament it show us that the chosen people of God are those who are called of God(Christians). We are under the New Covenant not the Old.


1 Peter 2:9-12 (KJV)
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.


It is Christians that are God's priest and a Holy Nation and peculier people.

 

Dual Covenant Denied


Pastors John Hagee and Jerry Falwell have both denied a report in The Jerusalem Post earlier this week that they embrace the "dual covenant" theology, which holds that Jews are saved through a special relationship with God and so need not become Christians to get to heaven.

In a statement to the Post, the Texas-based televangelist Hagee said that neither he nor Southern Baptist pastor Falwell "believe or teach Dual Covenant."

Hagee added that he had "made it a practice for 25 years not to target Jews for conversion" at any "Night to Honor Israel" events. If Jews "inquire about our faith at a later time, we give them a full scriptural presentation of redemption."

He stressed that "regardless of the response from the Jewish person, we remain friends in support of the State of Israel as required by scripture."

Falwell, meanwhile, posted a statement on his website to the effect that he believes "all people - Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Jews, Muslims, etc." must accept Jesus in order to enter heaven.
- Source: Hagee, Falwell deny endorsing 'dual covenant', Jerusalem Post, Israel, Mar. 2, 2006


http://www.apologeticsindex.org/357-john-hagee-salvation

 

So your version of "studying" is not learning anything about the traditions of apocalyptic literature? Not knowing anything about it? If you don't study such things, how do you know we don't know what we're talking about?

You wouldn't be able to tell, would you?

 

"As you can probably tell I am no great fan of the Jewish people. What they did in the U.S.S.R. disgusts me. What they did to Germany infuriates me. What they're doing to America makes me sick.

I can't imagine that any just and righteous God would reward all of this insanity and treachery with lordship over the world under the leadership of a messiah they once had nailed to a cross."

This is a quote from one of his earlier posts. He isn't just pointing out information. He is telling us that he hates the Jews. His avatar tells us all the rest. Do you really think I'm a great detective? I don't think so.
His Nazi roots are pretty obvious.
Are you sure this is a guy you want to spend your time defending?

 

Judaism of the second Temple period (and prior) considered the concept of salvation more national (corporate) than exclusively personal, as modern Christianity views it.

The salvation of the individual Jew was connected to the salvation of the entire people. This belief stemmed directly from the teachings of the Torah.


The concept of salvation was tied to that of restoration for Israel. It included such ideas as:

Rescue from national enemies
Restoration of national symbols
State of shalom among peoples
Inauguration of the age to come
Liberation from Rome
Restoration of the Temple
Free enjoyment of their own land
Inauguration of a new covenant between Israel and her God

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/romstudy/rom2.htm

 

I really don't see where that would mean he hates the Jews. I am not a fan of the Jews either....meaning that I don't grovel at their feet....I don't see them as special above everyone else. But I don't hate the Jews. The Jews don't represent God......Christians do....we are the ones that God has chosen to represent Him today and forever. God never said why are you persecuting me when the Israel or the Jews were being persecuted.....but Jesus said that when the Church was being persecuted by Paul.

 

Yes, that is what I said. Salvation is of the Jews. And the Jews are God's chosen people.

Yes, the Church is also chosen, yet it is a different body than Israel. And the Church does not replace Israel as the chosen nation over the world. The Churches inheiritance is heavenly, Israel's is earthly. God never removed Israel's distinction as the chosen people. Read Romans ch.9-11

The New Covenant or Testament that the Church is under, is a product also of the Old Covenant. It doesn't replace the Old Covenant. Its born out of it.
Gal.3:17

Quantrill

 

My version of studying the Bible is to first not worry about the comments of those who do not see the Bible as the Word of God. Then to those who do, I will compare what they say with Scripture.

I do study, and know you don't know what your talking about. But, prove me wrong.

Quantrill

 

Concerning the modern day Jews, I wrote this thread OP a couple of years ago for 'THEM' to answer:

Persecution & Suffering of the Jews over the Ages...

I just have a question for the modern followers of the Jewish faith of today:

"Do you see the Holocaust and present persecution of Israel, and modern anti-Semite prejudices as a result possibly of the Jewish religion rejection of Jesus as their Messiah?"

For scripture says that "He came unto His own and His own received Him not. But to those who did receive Him He gave them power to become the sons of God." Aka, the "new" Chosen ppl!

Plus I've noticed that modern Judaism is now more of tradition and the OT scriptures are not as esteemed say as are they by NT Christians. An example, there are many OT scriptures that point to a 'suffering Messiah' (as is much of the renown book of Isaiah), but the Jewish religious hierarchy does not make the connection; and thereby, ignore the suffering (piercing,stripes as per whipping, etc.) of Christ at the cross as the Lamb of God for the universal atonement of sin. And, of course, modern Judaism does not have blood sacrifices anymore in their services (scripture states that "w/o the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins"); whereas, Christians believe in the sacrifice of Jesus as the one & final blood atonement for forgiveness of their sins and apply it daily to their lives by grace.

And Christians have been persecuted & martyred for their faith thru out history; but Christ said that they would as per scripture, "They will hate you because they hated Me first." And that we will 'identify' with Him and His sufferings."

Doesnt all this make the modern Jewish followers think about the picture in whole?!! Or are they just into dead religion and the traditions of men...

BTW: all thru the OT, when Israel was obedient & followed the Law they were blessed & prospered. But when they became disobedient, worshipped false idols or became like their pagan neighbors, they were turned over to their enemies for punishment & slavery.

 

Of the Jews does not mean chosen....it means salvation came through them, because Jesus was a Jew. The promise that a Savior would come through the tribe of Judah. That's what it means.....it does not mean that the Old Covenant that God made with them is applicable today.

You are in error again....the Church has replaced the house of Israel. It is the Church that will rule with Jesus over the Nations when Jesus returns.

Our inheritance will be the Earth. Scriptures elshwere also tells us that the saints' rule will not be limited to only the Earth, but over things....the entire univers. But our inheritance is not Heaven. You will never find anywhere in the Bible where it says our inheritance is Heaven.

Matthew 5:5 (ASV)
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


The kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of the saints

Revelation 11:15 (NKJV)
15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

The sainst will have power over the Nations

Revelation 2:26-27 (ASV)
26 And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations:
27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; as I also have received of my Father:

The sainst will rule with Jesus over the Earth.....they will sit with Him on His throne.

Revelation 3:20-22 (ESV)
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.' "

God will set up a kingdom on the Earth

Daniel 2:31-45


All the scriptures above is referring to ruler-ship on the Earth.....Christians will rule with Jesus on the Earth over all the Nations. Remember, Jesus told the Pharisees that people from the east and the west will come and sit down in the kingdom and they will be outside.

Luke 13:29-30 (ASV)
29 And they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And behold, there are last who shall be first, and there are first who shall be last.

Who were the last? The Gentiles. Jesus was talking about the Gentiles would be in the kingdom but they would be outside of it. Jesus also said the kingdom of God would be taken away from them and given to another.

Matthew 21:43 (ASV)
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.



Here is what it says in Romans 9:6-9.

Romans 9:6-9 (ASV)
6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.
9 For this is a word of promise, According to this season will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.


It is saying that the true people of God are those who are born of the Spirit.....they are the children of the promise. The Bible says the flesh profits you nothing..... for a Jew to inherit the kingdom and rule with Jesus he or she MUST repent, and believe the gospel the same way a Gentile must repent and believe. There is only one Covenant, and that is the New Covenant.

That's not what that verse is saying. It is saying that the promise of salvation by grace was before the Old Covenant, and cannot be annulled by it because it was before it. Before God made the Old Covenant He made a promise to Abraham which was by grace, which is by faith.

Hebrews 11:1-40

 

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Romans 10:12

See particularly Romans 3:26-30. When the apostle says there is no difference between them, he means in regard to the subject under discussion. In many respects there might be a difference; but not in the way of justification before God. There all had sinned; all had failed of obeying the Law; and all must be justified in the same way, by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

http://bible.cc/romans/10-12.htm

 

The final 'chosen' ppl are called "the sons of God' in the NT:


John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:19 (Whole Chapter)
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


And is summed up with this one scripture:

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

Many believers understand apocalyptic literature, its roots and symbols.
You won't learn anything from me because you would perceive that as "losing" as you think we are in competition, but you will be able to find many devout people that you can respect that will be able to teach you about apocalypticism and how it relates to Revelation. It is how everyone understood Revelation until Darby corrupted a vulnerable American public. You can read about that, too.
You said you don't know what I'm talking about. Don't be so quick to assume, then, that I'm wrong. There may still be things to learn worth knowing.
Don't be afraid.

 

Oh yeah...John Nelson Darby. Father of dispensationalism...

 

The guy is a Nazi!!!!
Is that who you want to align yourself with?
Seriously?

 

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/cathouse/darby.htm

The twentieth century has seen a dramatic paradigm shift in prophetic perspectives, first away from and now back toward its historic roots. This shift away from historic Christianity stemmed from a novel approach to Bible interpretation called dispensationalism which was developed in the 1830s and popularized with the 1909 publication of the Scofield Reference Bible.

Dispensationalism, with its unique brand of premillennialism, has been thoroughly pervasive, being prominent in many churches, in bookstores, and among radio Bible teachers.

The distinguishing features of dispensationalism are a rigidly applied literalism in the interpretation of Scripture, a compartmentalization of Scripture into "dispensations," and a dichotomy between Israel and the Church.

Dispensationalists believe "this present world system . . . is now controlled by Satan" (not by God) and will end in failure and apostasy.

Dispensational premillennialists claim that their unique doctrines have been held since the early church, but these claims have been soundly refuted. Far from being the historic position of the church, premillennialism was described in 1813 by David Bogue as an oddity of Church history.

Postmillennialism was the dominant eschatology from the Reformation until at least 1859.

The doctrine of a secret rapture was first conceived by John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethren in 1827. Darby, known as the father of dispensationalism, invented the doctrine claiming there were not one, but two "second comings."

This teaching was immediately challenged as unbiblical by other members of the Brethren. Samuel P. Tregelles, a noted biblical scholar, rejected Darby's new interpretation as the "height of speculative nonsense."

 

I am not aligning myself to anyone......but the truth is the truth regardless of who speaks it. Look at the evidence.....have the Jews not committed atrocities against others, yes or no? Do you keep silent when they kill and murder?

 

He is painting Germany as the victim of the Jews!!!
Is that how you want to re-write history?
The dude is a Nazi, man!
Wake up!

 

You have not answered my question. Answer my question, then we can go on and discuss if the Germans were victims or not.