There is no plan B. Blah blah blah Thunberg talks

Discussion in 'Science' started by Robert, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You wanna Bet. Biden is already under investigation. We have a huge amount of dirt on the squalid old guy. The Big guy as you recall? The man who threatened and won against Ukraine. Biden is terrible.

    Flint started when the Flint water department decided to use the river water. Now they want others to be held to account.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This post is TOTALLY irrelevant in that it does not even attempt to address the issue of the limits of buying power in controlling issues such as product content, pollution from processing and manufacturing in the supply chain, etc.

    Thus, there is NO reason to care whether your post is total BS or not.

    If you want to start a thread on Flint, do that. But, I ask you to stop this crap in this thread.
     
  3. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who tells you about your water supply? The locals running the water to you or your Governor?
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes - this is more PURE CRAP that doesn't even SLIGHTLY address the issue here.
     
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) Rivers are primarily polluted by macro agricultural practices, and by manufacturing.

    2) I try very hard not to buy groceries. We produce a considerable proportion of our food here at home.
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Plus, the citizen living there doesn't even have a product choice.

    Capitalist buying power, that is, the decisions individuals make, has NO influence over cases such as Flint.

    That was my point.

    It is the refutation of the argument made by Crank.
     
  7. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is my thread and you keep refusing to discuss Greta Thunberg and her blasting democrats for only blah blah blah. So please stop disrupting.
     
  8. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That looks like you agree with me.

    I am not the person saying the citizens have the choice. If they have a well, then they have choices.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    YES.

    And, when you stand in any significantly sized grocery story you have NO IDEA who produced most of the produce and meat that you see. And, you have no idea of the pollution that may or may not exist in OR be caused by the supply chain for that food.

    You do have some protection from the FDA on food quality. But, even there Republicans have worked to ensure that food chain monitoring is stupendously underfunded - EVEN THOUGH AGRICULTURE WANTs MORE OF THAT!!! (For reasons that can be discussed.)

    The problem with your personal commitment to food autonomy is that it is IRRELEVANT to the US as a whole due to its size and the fact that so much of our population doesn't have the time, resources or knowledge for achieving what you may be managing to achieve.
     
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  10. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On this thread Greta Thunberg is the issue.
     
  11. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But in your case, you are perfect!!! Is that true?
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I wonder about used EV's? They will need to install an expensive new battery and used prices will be held higher due to the higher prices of new EV's. I think Tesla hurt EV expansion with their high prices and elitism approach and I'm hoping Tesla has more competition in the future geared towards the average car buyer.

    I just checked the F150 electric truck and the base prices are between $40K and $90K...I suspect this will be a tough sell to the average buyer?

    Americans simply refuse to pay their way when it comes to infrastructure and education which is why both are crumbling messes today. Biden is correct to spend on infrastructure but it's a shame it will be funded mostly by debt money.

    No matter how much I rag on our education system, I do believe today almost any kid can attend community colleges and universities if they truly desire. This tells me that in order to achieve a higher educated public, which IMO includes higher achievement in high school, the issue is not more access to education but how to get millions of kids to be excited about learning. In our community every kid graduating from high school can receive some level of scholarship support...the issue is getting them to do it...
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    No...THEY are not the root reasons...
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Sure thing, guy. Millions of people in more densely populated places than America, manage to produce vegetables, and even run a few chickens .. most while also working long hours. The problem isn't with logistics, it's with people.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any merit in dumping on Tesla for producing world beating electric car technology.

    There is NO WAY to suggest their monumental progress set back this industry. It absolutely moved the industry forward.

    As I pointed out, there are many reasons to believe that prices will come down as competition and capability increase and as used EV cars come on the market.

    Also, the msrp of an EV has to be reviewed with the understanding that fuel and maintenance are lower. Also, they are lower, have higher acceleration, are cleaner in your garage, etc.

    There will be people with uses an opinions that preclude EVs, at least for a while.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Your pictures prove MY point, not yours.
     
  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's a stretch!

    I think you have some explaining to do :)
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, it's easy. Look at the pictures that include what you wanted to see, but which also have backgrounds. They don't show what you propose as being something that can be scaled to cover the city.

    Also, you can buy hydroponic systems for growing vegetables in your home. However, they grow no more than a small side salad per WEEK.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm all in favor of people using the space they have. My Seattle home in the middle of the city has 3 4X8 raised beds, open planting area, and about 10 fruit trees that are part of the horticultural plan. Besides that, I have 8 trees of espaliered apples and asian pears. I have blueberry bushes of dwarf and full size. But, that is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what my wife and I consume.

    Two specific problems are:

    - the volume that can be produced in a normal city environment is NOT EVEN CLOSE to enough when the individual is an apartment dweller, and is still totally insufficient for most of those who can afford a yard. It is a supplement at BEST.

    - I find that a majority of those I encounter don't know enough about agriculture to be even CLOSE to successful unless they decide to reorient their time to becoming capable at agriculture. That is NOT going to happen in our society, as there are too many directions that demand that kind of time and focus.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Do you grow wheat to make your own bread?
     
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Who cares if it's only a supplement! EVERY little bit helps - down to the last lettuce leaf. Saying "I can't do it 100% so I won't do it at all" just another cop out, and a horribly common one. More importantly, inner cities and inner suburbs are full of wasted ground, window ledges, rooftops, and balconies. The only thing stopping people from growing whatever they can, is themselves.

    Full disclosure - we've been producing the majority of fruit and vegetables for a family of five for many years. We ALWAYS have surplus, and we intensely plant only about one quarter of an acre. We have friends who produce nearly as much in small inner city backyards, and my parents-in-law have a 'farm' on their apartment terrace (larger than a balcony, but smaller than a courtyard). Fruit trees, huge range of vegetables, herbs, the works. They even grow potatoes in pots. One of my siblings has a tiny balcony - a metre deep by about four metres long - and manages to produce enough herbs, salad greens, and tomatoes for two - with daily picking.
     
  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    No. And I don't grow my own coffee beans either.

    Let me guess .. you're going to say that because people can't grow their own wheat, they shouldn't even try. Or you'll say "see .. you're not perfect!", as though that somehow discounts the much lower level of dependence we have upon supermarkets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Here's yet another example of what can be done in inner city suburbs .. and I'm sure America has millions of homes like this which aren't producing any food whatsoever. Not because they can't (because clearly they can!), but because they don't want to.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Even if renting, and therefore unable to dig up grass/concrete, look what can be done in pots. That's a huge amount of potatoes - likely enough for a family for a whole season!

    [​IMG]
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    And look what can be done in an average suburban backyard! How many Americans with yards are doing this? What's stopping them?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm fine with "every little bit helps". And, I applaud your success.

    But, this came up as a solution of significance.
     

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