They want to Ban Guns

Nothing changes the fact that anti gun controllers have created a culture that allows mass killing nut jobs to buy military weapons willy nilly, and use them to kill dozens, and wound hundreds.

 

Of course it isn't hard to commit a mass killing. Even this guy could have done a lot worse if he used a plane instead of guns.

 

The firearms available on the civilian market in the united states are not military weapons. Stop using false statements and hyperbole to cloud the issue.

If there is so much objection on the part of yourself to individuals with mental health issues being able to legally purchase firearms, do something meaningful about it besides complaining about what firearms are legally available. Seek better mental health services that will have these apparently troubled individuals committed to mental health facilities, which will thus make it impossible for them to legally purchase any firearms. Even if they are eventually released, the record of their having been committed will still disqualify them.

 

Well of course many of the weapons on the civilian market today are military weapons. Further, they were built for one reason, to kill as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. Stop pretending otherwise.

 

Name one other than precision weapons many of which were developed in the civilian market first?

 

Military assault weapons have a burst or full auto switch. Civilian versions have no such thing because full auto is regulated.

 

I know most civilians are unaware that that the use of full auto with an M16 on the battlefield is very rare, so the AR15 is in terms of value, no different than an M16. The civilian version AR15 is in fact a military weapon and has no place in the civilian market. NO PLACE IN THE CIVILIAN MARKET. And there are innumerable others.

 

And yet sale continue to skyrocket. Go figure.

 

There isn't a military in the world that would equip their military with a semi-auto AR-15. The M-16 provides a 3-round burst mode and is the MILITARY rifle, not the AR-15!

 

Then the burden of proof is on yourself, to demonstrate that firearms such as the AR-15, are indeed military weapons, and point out exactly which militaries actually use and issue them to soldiers. Merely claiming such is not proof of such a concept.

And the above statement is based on precisely what evidence? What facts were used in reaching this conclusion? Did the manufacturers state that they are producing their products for the explicit and exclusive purpose of being used for such purposes?

 

No respectable military would use the AR-15. But for civilian use it has all kinds of usefulness. It is easy for even women to use because of its lack of recoil. In addition a standard AR-15 would weigh in at about 6lbs. A Remington 700 will weigh about 8.5lbs with a plastic stock and probably around 10 lbs with a wood stock. That is a HUGE difference for a person of small stature trying to use one off-hand! The stock on an AR-15 can be adjusted for the pull length of the person using it while most hunting rifles cannot. It's easy to put a flashlight or laser sight on an AR-15 for use in hunting at night (like for raccoons) while most hunting rifles aren't set up for this.

Most people will not throw a hunting rifle behind the seat of a pickup because of the beating it would take. That used to be the province of the Mini-14 but has pretty much been taken over by the AR-15, the AK-47, or the SKS. The latter two can take a real beating and get plenty dirty and will still work just fine!

The AR-15 is not just a rifle, it is a modular system capable of being set up for almost any purpose. AND IT'S CHEAP!

Most of those on the left are coastal urban elites that have no idea how real people use their firearms or even what those uses are! They think the AR-15 can be easily and cheaply replaced by other retail offerings. It just goes to show how out of touch they are with reality in the rest of the world.

 

Except for the basic fact that the internal components are completely different from one another, thus making both firearms completely different from one another.

The AR-15 has been available to private individuals on the civilian market for over fifty years now, and countless millions have been bought and sold. Nearly every major firearms manufacturer is producing their own variant, and there appears to be no signs of this standard ever coming to an end. The public at large has concluded that the AR-15, and innumerable others like it, do indeed have a place on the civilian market, thus rendering your opinion irrelevant in the matter.

 

It's called common sense. Per Florida law, you are allowed to use lethal force to defend yourself when you feel threatened by lethal force or to stop the commision of a violent felony. Those are the only reasons I'd ever point a gun at a human being.

 

Killing humans is a legitimate use of guns. I own several that have that as their main purpose. Self defense is done by guns that kill humans.

 

Well, yes and no. First, the Remington 870 pump shotgun I own is a military weapon (well, would need to add a sling and an extended magazine). There are several shotguns (and rifles) that were designed for civilian use like my 870, but adopted by the military. (another example is the .50 Barrett, and the Remingtion M-700). Most guns on the market are derivatives of military weapons (the bolt action hunting rifle is derived from the 98 Mauser, which was one of the most used military weapons in the first part of the last century). The whole military vs. civilian weapon dichotomy isn't real. There is no difference for the most part, except civilians can't have full auto weapons.

 

Military weapon. Doesn't belong in the hands of civilians.

AR 15

 

Military weapons. Don't belong in the hands of civilians.

 

Demonstrate which military in which country issues the AR-15 to its soldiers, or drop the argument.

 

Not a military weapon. Not to military specs on operation or many of the internals. Would you like to know how many?

 

Which of these military weapons don't belong in civilian's hands:
Weapons of war in the US:
In active service[edit]
Beretta M9 (92FS) (9×19mm)
SIG Sauer M11 (P22 (9×19mm)
SIG Sauer M17 Modular Handgun System (P320) (9×19mm) – Was selected to replace the M9 after winning the XM17 Modular Handgun System competition
SIG Sauer M18 Modular Handgun System (P320 Compact) (9×19mm) – Was selected to replace the M11 after winning the XM17 Modular Handgun System competition.

M9


M11


M17
In active service (some branches or limited roles)[edit]
Colt M1911A1 (.45 ACP) (US Army, USMC and USSOCOM)
M45A1 CQBP (Close Quarters Battle Pistol) (.45 ACP) (MARSOC)
Kimber ICQB (Interim Close Quarter Battle) (.45 ACP) (MARSOC)
Beretta M9A1 (9×19mm) (USMC)
Heckler & Koch P11 (Underwater Pistol) (7.62×36mm rocket-propelled darts) (USSOCOM)
Heckler & Koch Mk 23 Mod 0 (.45 ACP) (USSOCOM)
Heckler & Koch Mk 24 Mod 0 (HK45 Compact Tactical) (.45 ACP) (NAVSPECWAR)
SIG Sauer Mk 25 Mod 0 (P226) (9×19mm) (NAVSPECWAR)
SIG Sauer P229R DAK (.40 S&W) (USCG)
Glock Mk 27 Mod 0 (Glock 19) (9×19mm) (USSOCOM)
Glock Mk 28 Mod 0 (Glock 17) (9×19mm) (USSOCOM)



MEU(SOC) pistol with SureFire weapon light, Gemtech lanyard, and Strider Gunner Grips


Kimber Custom


P229R DAK


M1911A1


HK45C with an extended threaded barrel


Glock 19


P11 underwater pistol
Out of service (obsolete)[edit]
AAI QSPR (Quiet Special Purpose Revolver, .44 Magnum) (never issued)
Beretta 92SB (9×19mm) (JSSAP winner)
Browning Hi-Power (9×19mm) (Special Forces)
Bavarian Model 1842 Musket
Colt Dragoon Revolver (1st/2nd/3rd) (.44)
Colt M1900 (.38 ACP) (never issued)
Colt M1902 (.38 ACP) (never issued)
Colt M1903 (.32 ACP) (General Officers)
Colt M1905 (.45 ACP) (never issued)
Colt M1908 (.380 ACP) (General Officers)
Harpers Ferry Model 1805 (.54)
High Standard HDM (.22 LR) (Navy SEALs and USMC Force Recon)
Misc. JSSAP/XM9/XM10 entrants (9×19mm) (never issued)
LeMat Revolver (.41/.63, .35/.5)
M15 General Officers (.45 ACP)
M1799 flintlock pistol (.69)
M1816 flintlock pistol (.54)

U.S. Model 1836 flintlock pistol, on display at Sutter's Fort
M1836 flintlock pistol (.54)
M1842 Navy (.54)
M1842 Pistol (.54)
M1847 Pistol (.44)
M1849 Pocket Pistol (.31)
M1851 Navy (.36)
M1860 Army Revolver (.44)
M1861 Navy Revolver (.36)
M1873 (.45 Colt)
M1889 Navy (.38 Long Colt)
M1892/M1894/M1896 Army (.38 Long Colt)
M1902 Revolver (.38 Long Colt)
M1900 (DWM "American Eagle Luger"; 7.65×22mm, 9×19mm, .45 ACP) (never issued)
M1903 Army (.38 Special/.38 Long Colt)
M1905 Marine (.38 Long Colt)
M1908 Army (.38 Special)
M1909 Army (.45 Colt)
M1917 (.45 ACP)
Mk 1 Underwater Defense Gun (Mk 59 Mod 0) (Navy SEALs)
Mk 22 Mod 0 (9×19mm Parabellum) (Special Forces)
Objective Personal Defense Weapon (canceled)
Remington-Beals Revolver (.36)
Remington M1858 (.44)
Remington M53 (.45 ACP) (never issued)
Remington M1865/M1867 Navy (.50)
Ruger MK II (.22 LR) (Navy SEALs)
Savage Arms .45 pistol (.45 ACP) (never issued)
Savage Figure Eight (.36)
Schofield Model 3 (.45 Schofield)
Smith & Wesson Model 10 (.38 Special)
Smith & Wesson Model 12 (.38 Special)
Smith & Wesson Model 15 (.38 Special) (USAF)
Smith & Wesson No. 2 (.32)
Spiller and Burr (.36)
Starr Model 1863 (.44)

In active service (some branches or limited roles)[edit]

M16A4 (5.56×45mm NATO) (USMC, US Army)[14]

M16A3 (5.56×45mm NATO) (USN SEALs and USN Seabees)

M16A2 (5.56×45mm NATO) (USAF, USCG, and US Army Training/Reserve/National Guard)

M27 IAR (Infantry Automatic Rifle) (5.56×45mm NATO) (USMC Automatic Rifleman/Designated Marksmen)

HK417 (7.62×51mm NATO) (USSOCOM)

Mk 17 Mod 0 (7.62×51mm NATO) (USSOCOM)

Mk 14 EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO) (USCG, US Army, USAF Designated Marksmen/EOD)

M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle (7.62 NATO) (USMC Designated Marksmen/Scout Snipers)


M16A2



Out of service (obsolete)[edit]

FN FAL (battle rifle, trialled as T48 against the T44 and T47 to replace the M1: lost to the former)

Olin/Winchester Salvo Rifle (battle rifle, 5.56mm duplex)

M14E1 (Selective Fire Rifle, 7.62×51mm NATO) (never standardized)

M16A1 (5.56×45mm NATO)

M16 (5.56×45mm NATO)

XM16E1 (5.56×45mm NATO)

AR-15/Colt Model 601/602 (5.56×45mm NATO rifle) (USAF and SOF use only)

XM22/E1 Rifle (Selective Fire Rifle, 5.56×45mm NATO)

Mk 4 Mod 0 (Suppressed Rifle, 5.56×45mm NATO)

Misc. M1 Garand Variants (E1-E6 and E9-E14) (Semi-Automatic Rifle, .30-'06)

Mk 2 Mod 0/1/2 (Semi-Automatic Rifle, 7.62×51mm NATO)

M1 Garand (Semi-automatic rifle, .30-06)

M1941 Johnson rifle (Semi-Automatic Rifle, .30-'06)

Model 45A

M1946 rifle (never used in active duty)

M1947 Johnson auto carbine (Semi-Automatic Rifle, .30-'06)

Gyrojet rifle (13 mm) (never issued)

Pedersen Rifle (.276) (competed unsuccessfully with M1 Garand to become primary service rifle)

Pedersen Device (attachment for Springfield M1903, .30 conversion)

M1918 BAR (.30-06)

M1903/A1/A3 (Bolt-action rifle; .30-03, .30-06)

M1917 Enfield (Bolt-action rifle)

Model 1907/15 Berthier rifle (Bolt-action rifle)[15]

M1916 Mosin–Nagant (Bolt-action rifle)[16]

M1895 Navy (Navy Lee, 6 mm Navy)

M1892/M1896/M1898 Rifle (a/k/a Krag Bolt Action Rifle; .30-40 Krag)

M1885 Remington-Lee (Bolt-action rifle; .45-70 Gov)

M1882 Short Rifle (.45-70 Gov.)

M1882 Remington-Lee (Bolt-action rifle; .45-70 Gov.)

M1879 Remington-Lee (Bolt-action rifle; .45-70 Gov.)

Remington-Keene rifle (Bolt-action rifle; .45-70 Gov.)[17]

M1875 Officers' Rifle (.45-70 Gov.)

M1873/M1879/M1880/M1884/M1888/M1889 Springfield (a/k/a Trapdoor Springfield;.45-70 Gov..: .45-55-405 & .45-70-500)

M1872 Springfield (a/k/a Rolling Block Springfield; .50-70 Gov.)

M1865/M1866/M1868/M1869/M1870 Springfield (a/k/a Trapdoor Springfield; .50-70 Government)

Sharps carbine/rifle (Breech-loader; .42-60-410) (.52 caliber issued to Berdan's 1st and 2nd US Sharpshooters in the US Civil War)

Henry rifle (Lever-action; .44-26-200)

Spencer rifle (Lever-action; 56-56 (.52-45-350))

M1863 Springfield

M1861 Springfield (.5

Colt revolving rifle (Colt Model 1855; 6/5-shot revolver rifle;.44/.56)

Greene rifle (Bolt-action breech-loader)

P53 Enfield (.577 (.5)

P51 Enfield Musketoon ("Artillery Carbine"; 24" barrel, .69)

Model 1854 Lorenz rifle (Rifle-musket, .54, .5

M1859 Sharps ('New model 1859', breech loader; .52, .56)

M1855 Rifle-Musket

M1855 Rifle (Percussion muzzle-loader; 58-60-500)

M1847 Musketoon (Springfield, .69)

M1842 Musket (Percussion musket, .69)

M1841 Rifle "Mississippi Rifle" (percussion muzzle-loader;.54, .5

M1840 Musket (flintlock musket;.69)(later percussion)

M1835 Springfield (flintlock musket; .67 cal)

M1819 Hall rifle (Harper's Ferry;Breech-loader)

Model 1822 Musket (Flintlock Musket) .69 (later percussion)

Model 1816 Musket (Flintlock musket; .69) (Later Percussion)

Model 1817 Rifle ('Common rifle';Derringer, Johnson, North and Starr; Flintlock rifle, .54) (later percussion)

Model 1814 Common Rifle (Deringer, Johnson; Flintlock rifle; later percussion; .54)

Springfield Model 1812 Musket (Flintlock musket; .69)

Model 1808 Contract Musket (Flintlock musket; .69)

Harper's Ferry Model 1803 Rifle (Flintlock rifle; .54)

Model 1795 Musket (Flintlock musket; .69)

1792 contract rifle (Flintlock rifle; .49)

Charleville musket (Flintlock musket; .69)

Brown Bess (Musket; .75)

Kentucky Rifle (Flintlock rifle)

Ferguson rifle In active service[edit]

M4A1 (5.56×45mm NATO)


M4

In active service (some branches or limited roles)[edit]

Mk 18 Mod 0 CQBR (Close Quarters Battle Receiver) (5.56×45mm NATO) (USMC Recon, USCG, USN SEALs, USSOCOM, and USASOC)

M231 FPW (Firing Port Weapon) (5.56×45mm NATO) (US Army Bradley M2A3 Crew)

Heckler & Koch HK416 (5.56×45mm NATO) (USSOCOM)


M4



Mk 18 Mod 0 CQBR



GUU-5/P



M231 FPW



HK416

Out of service (obsolete)[edit]

M4 (5.56×45mm NATO) (the U.S. Army upgrading and retrofitting their existing stock of M4 carbines to the specifications of the M4A1, starting in 2014 and predicted to be completed by 2020)

Colt Model 723 (Carbine version of M16A2, 5.56×45mm NATO) (US Navy)

M4E2 Carbine (Automatic Carbine, 5.56×45mm NATO) (never standardized)

CAR-15 Survival Rifle (5.56×45mm)

Colt Model 653 (Carbine version of M16A1, 5.56×45mm NATO)

GAU-5/A and A/A ("SMG," 5.56×45mm)

XM177E1 and XM177E2 ("SMG," 5.56×45mm)

Colt Model 733 (5.56×45mm NATO) (USMC Force Recon)

XM23 Carbine (Selective Fire Carbine, 5.56×45mm NATO)

GUU-4/P ("Arm Gun," .221 Remington Fireball)

CAR-15 SMG (CAR-15 w/ 10" barrel, 5.56 mm)

CAR-15 Carbine (M16 w/ 15" barrel, 5.56×45mm)

AR-7 (.22 LR)

M1/M1A1 Carbine (Semi-Automatic Carbine, .30 Carbine)

M2 Carbine (Full-Automatic Carbine, .30 Carbine)

M3 Carbine ( Infrared Scoped, Full-Automatic Carbine, .30 Carbine)

Thompson Light Rifle (Full-Automatic Carbine, .30 Carbine)

M50 Reising

T38/M4 (Survival Rifle; .22 Hornet)

T39/M6 (Survival Rifle; .22 Hornet/.410 Gauge)

MA-1 (AR-5 Survival Rifle; .22 Hornet)

M1892/M1896/M1898/M1899 Carbine (a/k/a Krag Bolt Action Carbine; .30-40 Krag)

M1873/M1877/M1879/M1884/M1886 Carbine (.45-70 Gov.: .45-55-405 & .45-70-500)

Smith carbine (Breech-loader (break-open); .50-50-360)

Burnside carbine (Breech-loader, .58-60-500)

Starr Carbine (Breech-loader, .54)

Springfield In active service[edit]

M500 (pump-action 12 Gauge)

M590 (pump-action 12 Gauge)

M590A1 (pump-action 12 Gauge)


Mossberg 590 with 20-inch (510 mm) barrel

In active service (some branches or limited roles)[edit]

M870 (pump-action 12 gauge) (USCG)

M1014 (semi-automatic 12 gauge) (US Army and USMC)

M26 (Modular Accessory Shotgun System) (bolt-action 12 gauge attachment) (US Army)


M870 MCS Modular Combat Shotgun



M1014



M26 MASS Modular Accessory Shotgun System

Out of service/Canceled[edit]

Ithaca Model 37 (pump-action 12 gauge)

Pancor Jackhammer (gas-operated 12 gauge)

Remington 7188 (full-auto 12 gauge) (Navy SEALs)

Remington Model 10 (pump-action 12 gauge)

Remington Model 11 (semi-automatic 12 gauge)

Remington Model 31 (pump-action 12 gauge)

Springfield Model 1881 Forager (20 gauge)

Stevens Model 520-30 (pump-action 12 gauge)

Stevens Model 620 (pump-action 12 gauge)

Winchester 1200 (pump-action 12 gauge)

Winchester Model 1912 (pump-action 12 gauge)

Winchester Model 1897 (pump-action 12 gauge)

CAWS entrants, specifically HK CAWS Model 1863 (Breech-barrel carbine, .52-cal.) (Flintlock breech-loader; .69)


Designated marksman rifle[edit]

SEAL Recon Rifle (5.56×45mm NATO) (USN SEALs)

M16 SDMR (Squad Designated Marksman Rifle) (5.56×45mm NATO) (US Army)

Mk 12 Mod 0/1 SPR (Special Purpose Rifle) (5.56×45mm NATO) (USSOCOM)

M39 EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO) (USMC)

Mk 14 Mod 0/1 EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO) (USN SEALs, US Army and USCG)

M21A5/M14SE Crazy Horse (7.62×51mm NATO) (US Army and USN)[13]

M25 SWS (Sniper Weapon System) (7.62×51mm NATO) (USSOCOM)

M14 Tactical Rifle (7.62×51mm NATO) (USCG)

Bolt action sniper rifle[edit]

M40A3/A5 (7.62×51mm NATO) (USMC)

Mk 13 Mod 5 AWM (Arctic Warfare Magnum) (.300 Winchester Magnum)

Mk 21 Mod 0 PSR (Precision Sniper Rifle) (USSOCOM)

M2010 ESR (Enhanced Sniper Rifle) (.300 Winchester Magnum) (US Army)

Semi-automatic sniper rifle[edit]

M110 SASS (Semi-Automatic Sniper System) (Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

Mk 11 Mod 0/1/2 SWS (Sniper Weapon System) (Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

Mk 20 Mod 0 SSR (Sniper Support Rifle) (Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO) (USSOCOM)

Anti-materiel rifle[edit]

M82A1M/A3 SASR (Special Application Scoped Rifle) (Anti-Materiel rifle) (.50 BMG)

M107 SASR (Special Application Scoped Rifle) (Anti-Materiel rifle) (.50 BMG)

Mk 15 Mod 0 LRSW (Long Range Sniper Weapon) (Bolt Action Anti-Materiel Rifle) (.50 BMG) (USN SEALs)


Soldiers with SDMRs



M39 EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle)



M40A3



M107 SASR (Special Application Scoped Rifle)



M110 SASS (Semi-Automatic Sniper System)



Mk 11



Mk 12 Mod 0 SPR (Special Purpose Rifle)



Mk 13 Mod 5 AWM (Arctic Warfare Magnum)



Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)



Mk 15 Mod 0 LRSW (Long Range Sniper Weapon)



XM2010 ESR (Enhanced Sniper Rifle)

Out of service[edit]

Designated marksman rifles[edit]

USMC Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle (SAM-R) (Designated Marksman Rifle) (5.56×45mm NATO)

USMC Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR) (Designated Marksman Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

XM8 Sharpshooter/SMR(Semi-Automatic Rifle) (5.56×45mm NATO)

Colt Model 655/656 (Selective Fire Marksman Rifle) (5.56×45mm NATO) (Never Standardized)

EX 16 Mod 0 SCAR-L (SV) (Semi-Auto Rifle) (5.56×45mm NATO)

M1C/D Garand (Semi-Automatic Rifle) (.30-06)

Semi-automatic sniper rifles[edit]

Mk 11 Mod 1 (Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

EX 17 Mod 0 SCAR-H (SV) (Semi-Automatic Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

M21 Sniper Weapon System (Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

M25 Sniper Weapon System (Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

Bolt action sniper rifles[edit]

M24 Sniper Weapon System (Bolt Action Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

M40 (Bolt Action Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

M40A1 (Bolt Action Sniper Rifle) (7.62×51mm NATO)

M86 (USN SEALs)

M1903A4 (Bolt Action Sniper Rifle) (.30-06)

Winchester Model 70 (Bolt-Action Rifle) (.30-06)

Anti-materiel rifle[edit]

M82A1/A1A (Semi-Automatic Anti-Materiel Rifle) (.50 BMG)

M82A2 (Semi-Automatic Anti-Materiel Rifle) (.50 BMG)

Robar RC-50 (Bolt-Action Anti-Materiel Rifle) (.50 BMG)

Random[edit]

Sharps Rifle (Lever-Action Rifle) (.50-90 Sharps)

Whitworth rifle (Single-Shot Muzzle-Loaded Rifle) (.451)

 

Militaries all over the world have used semi-auto battle weapons in conflict after conflict. Stop the nonsense, or drop the argument.

 

And which have issue AR 15's?

 

Which is irrelevant to the discussion. Demonstrate which military in which country issues the AR-15 to its soldiers, or drop the argument.

 

Military weapon. Doesn't belong in the hands of civilians.

 

Military battle rifle. Doesn't belong in civilian hands.