Tit-for-tat: World responds to Trump's tariffs with levies on US goods

Exactly. Everything that people do against Trump always backfires

He is the ultimate Teflon Don

 

Clearly US has more it could afford to loose than Europe can with its half broken economy.

If it went tit for tat and became a battle of attrition, we both know who will win.

At that point US might be hurt. But the EU will collapse

Both sides know this.

EU will not kill itself just to maintain an unfair advantage over the US. Fair and reciprocal trade is much better than the alternative...

 

I've stated this in other threads, but I'll do it again here.
I'll just use steel and lumber to keep it simple.
When Trump put the tariffs on steel I think his objective was really increase the US employment in the steel industry.
But what has happened is the price of US manufactured steel has gone up about 40%.

The price of steel everywhere else is about the same-maybe up slightly. So really what has happened is just that the cost of steel in the US has gone up and therefore everything made from steel in the US will go up. This makes our products both more expensive locally and less competitive in countries without tariffs.
The same is true with the tariffs on Canadian lumber. Those costs have just passed thru and turned into more expensive houses.
I'm pretty sure some US steel companies are bringing some old shut down facilities back on line, but I can't in my wildest dreams see any steel company making a major investment in new steel mills. After all they saw this same thing fail under Bush and they fear the whole thing will go away after Trump.
https://taxfoundation.org/lessons-2002-bush-steel-tariffs/

So to try and answer your questions:
It seems the US people are just paying more for the same things.
What seems to be happening, at least in some cases, is that American companies that make things from raw steel are moving to countries without these tariffs and returning finished parts that are not subject to tariffs.
The reduced tax rates should help, but the fact is many big companies were not paying any tax off shore, so just lower rates is not a big incentive.
Don't buy to much of the regulation stuff. While it does make a difference, the biggie is still cheap labor. We don't build airplanes in China, we build tee shirts.

 

You'll want to be careful about generalizing. Plans against Trump usually backfire because they too often rely on trying to shame the man, and he is as shameless as they come. But now we're talking about serious economic realities that no man, no matter how great his ego, can single-handedly counter.

 

Of course

We are both capable of having lucid moments

They just dont happen at the same time very often

 

Its not that the rest of the world can or will overwhelm Ametica

But that the right dagger placed at the right spot can bring anyone or any nation down

I want trump to succeed

But that doesnt mean that he will

 

Its about time we shake things up. China is quick to steal our intellectual property. We are buying tons of cheaply made crap that will be in a landfill a few years from now while they are buying up our real estate.

 

I think NATO was on the rocks with or without trump

 

As long as Russia poses its threat.

 

Yesterday German car companies suggested that all EU-US tariffs should be stopped. The car companies blinked. They fear this trade war will drive them out of the US market. Your banks are also very weak and vulnerable to US pressure.

 

So the issue is supply and demand.
We require more steel than we can produce so we have to import steel from other countries to subsidize our needs. The tariffs at the border hike up the price of steel from a country being hit by them
because we are still reliant on foreign steel, its a bet cost.

[In September 2003, the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) examined the economic effects of the Bush 2002 steel tariffs. The economy-wide analysis was designed to focus on the impacts that arose from the relative price changes resulting from the imposition of the tariffs, and estimated that the impact of the tariffs on the U.S. welfare ranged between a gain of $65.6 million (0.0006% of GDP) to a loss of $110.0 million (0.0011% of GDP), "with a central estimate of a welfare loss of $41.6 million." A majority of steel-consuming businesses reported that neither continuing nor ending the tariffs would change employment, international competitiveness, or capital investment.

According to a 2005 review of existing research, all studies on the tariffs "find that the costs of the Safeguard Measures outweighed their benefits in terms of aggregate GDP and employment as well as having an important redistributive impact."

Steel production rose slightly during the period of the tariff. The protection of the steel industry in the United States may have had unintended consequences and perverse effects. A study from 2003 that was paid for by CITAC, a trade association of businesses that use raw materials, found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.

The U.S. International Trade Commission noted that although the CITAC study did estimate the impact of changing steel prices, it did not specify how much of the impact was attributable directly to the steel tariffs. The study reported estimated impact, relying on specific assumptions made to make analysis simpler. The ITC also noted that, within the broad definition of "steel-consuming industries" used in the CITAC study, employment actually increased by almost 53,000 between March 2002 and December 2002, and that employment in the same industries had fallen by 281,000 from March to December 2001, prior to the tariffs.]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff

Regulations matter and the production of steel only rose slightly. Not enough to offset anything.

So you are saying that in order to avoid paying tariffs on steel, companies will move production and manufacturing to places that are hit by our tariffs (like China)?
And that Trump will just let them circumnavigate our national policy in clear sight?

Bush was too much of an economic conservative so he didn't target American companies. But what did Trump say to companies that think that they could move production overseas and sell their products back to us?

We are the largest consumer. They want to sell us their stuff. They wont be able to do that if they move production overseas. Trump's willingness to impose tariffs on our companies is what will keep them here

There are many regulations associated with textiles. They can be very costly.
https://www.epa.gov/regulatory-information-sector/textile-manufacturing-sector-naics-313

We know that Chinese factories are some of the most unregulated out there. Obviously cheap labor helps too.

 

It goes beyond that. It worked with Kim and North Korea peace talks. Trump is a person who understands realities. In Kims case, the position of him and his country.

Trump understands that we are the largest consumers. Other countries need us to buy their stuff more than we need to buy their stuff. They need us more than we need them. We can always move all of our manufacturing and production home, although be it hard to do.

But other countries cannot find other consumers as great as US. They need us to buy their stuff. And some countries like Mexico, are completely reliant on it.

Trump understands this reality. It'll be less costly to partake in fair trade than 1 sided taxation

 

I find it hard to imagine how a country might overcome our sheer consumption.

Because it seems that any actions against us, will be self harming. In addition to retaliatory tariffs, it will in fact reduce our rate of consumption, which will be an even bigger blow to them than our tariffs could ever be.

The last part by itself should be enough of a deterrent.

 

Sure, though here we're just talking about China. Trump is imposing tariffs on all sorts of countries, and that's especially relevant to the issue of steel and alu.

 

The Dow is looking a little droopy today.

http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/?xid=cnn_hp_marketbox

24,459.17 Real-Time Quote
As of 2:29pm ET

-198.63 / -0.81% Today’s Change

-1.01% Year-to-Date

 

Tit for Tat!?

is the tit
in more ways than tat
and we ain't gonna baby feed "them" no more.

The tit is a lot bigger than the tat.
It is that simple.


The question is whether will experience a loss of power & influence
as Britain did after WW2.
Will we witness, to paraphrase the Brits ,
" we use to be great".
It happens to all world dominators, leaders - Rome, the Mongols, Great Britain, . . . .


Moi

Who's GREAT Now ​

 

Time to sell your Walmart stock.

 

Indeed it will. Look at Boeing, a blue chip stock in many portfolios. The market is a mess.

 

What an amazingly simplistic view of all this. As the saying goes, "ignorance is bliss".

Do you own stock? Mutual funds? How is that working out?

 

The other countries can do whatever they please. And of course, under this president, so will we. The U.S. will win. Even if you don't agree with Trump's policies on anything else, at least you should trust him on the money stuff. He is an expert.

P.S. My retirement account has made more since the last election than in any quarter previous.

 

An expert? He is a spoiled rich kid who has declared bankruptcy several times and has stiffed contractors countless times. He inherited his wealth. He is not a self-made man. Most wealth in America is inherited.

 

My fear is that in a fit of losing he will do something really stupid.
I think his people have pretty much stopped trying to steer him in the right direction.

 

I doubt it, mega corps buy the government, and some are too big to fail

 

Mega corps dont actually hate America the way liberal globalists do

 

Canada, EU and Germany Signal Compliance With President Trump Trade Demands…

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...ompliance-with-president-trump-trade-demands/