Trump Warns of Possible North Korea Conflict

The level of your willful ignorance simply due to political bias is almost retching. If you were to actually read the several threads with alternative views on this subject based upon either rationale, or experience or at nothing better than bloody common sense you'd realize something.

Post for more reasons than your post count going up. This is a serious conversation about a current, fluid world impacting scenario. So either bring a worthy rebuttal or hide under a rock.

 

Excuse me? Don't quote me out of context Sir. Minus any substance. I was responding to another poster. Why not reply to the actual conversation therein? My guess is you didn't read IT.

That's some hip shooting shallow ***** ill call you out and ask anyone who reads this to say nay

 

Dude... lol.
The US occupied/invaded countries like Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea and Iraq. It all went horrible and horrible wrong. It's a freaking historic fact. Or are you going to make a convincing argument that 10 years of warfare and occupying Afghanistan helped them and the rest of the world? Good luck with that. Taliban is still all over the place.

 

But how Seth? This is a really dicey situation. Are we ready for another bloody war over there?

 

Dude? Well.. sir this thread your posting stupidity in has some real merit in of its own right. So many new factors and current world level players involved... with it changing as we speak. I see no correlation for your broad sweeping.. each above.. a topic due its own discourse in another branch of the forum. Ancient history.

To be quite frank the current NK/KJU scenario has nothing to compare it too. It's unique. Actionable. KJU not NK is a clear and present danger to both the United States of America and its allies. They simply will not be allowed to develop a ballistic missile IE the Taepodong II with a 4k to 7k kilometer capacity. That's our entire west coast.

The super cute part of this entire ***** caboodle is KJU was told by someone that he could play the same games with Trump that he did with Obama. He's done. Over. Finis. It's not a question of if but when and by whom.

That's the discussion. Not if but how. OK get on board. It's going to happen. My hope is to save millions of Koreans lives. As I've posted ad nauseum about with numerous posts.

It's no longer IF. It's how KJU is replaced.. Who replaces him and with what influences? NK elite wants to make money entrepreneur wise.. China would like NK to model their economy.. We don't care really because our deep state knows we need China to do this right.

Right. It's complicated but Trump has China dialed in and so NK will become disarmed. Come Hell or the highway.

 

No war, Kim is going down. Internally, externally, laterally lol. He's done.

If there is a war.. Sigh I'll be very sad because so many Innocent NKs will die blinded by nonsense nuclear proliferation propaganda ... while they as an entire freekin country have a whoppin 450 miles of paved roads? Their Average height is TWO inches shorter than SK.. Same genes.. Yah it's called malnutrition from birth.

But if we and China play it badly war could happen, and only NK people mainly will suffer. SK won't. NKs artillery those 2k pieces will be rendered inert by our scrambling tech. There will be so much ***** flying tech wise Kim Jung Un will have to ride a horse himself to give the order to fire a gun and then they won't even be able to target.. Anything.

So that's why I'm for a regime change to a moderate. Save the NK people

 

I don't want a war, and I'm sure our country doesn't want a war. I am quite certain that SK doesn't want a war, nor do the Chinese. There is one person who is driving this towards a war, however, and that is KJU.

I can think of a couple of scenarios whereby China is the catalyst for the end of this problem. All of them entail China forcing an end to NK's nuclear and missile program. These scenarios I can think of are both peaceable and not peaceable. China could strangle NK by cutting off all trade with NK, demanding that the nuclear weapons and missile program be dismantled before trade resumes. China could also signal its desire for a coup led by the NK military. And, if necessary, China could act like the great regional power that it is and put its army to work. They could invade NK and depose KJU, install a sane NK government, and leave. All of these possibilities are far more preferable and less risky than an attack by the U.S. North Korea is their baby, and it would give modern China a chance to do something responsible and in the interest of long term peace and stability for the future.

We are told that NK possesses literally thousands of artillery pieces and missiles that could strike Seoul, turning it into an inferno in an hour, perhaps killing hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. Therefore ...

If China is unable or unwilling to stop the NK nuclear and missile program, I think I would forewarn the Chinese and the Russians as to what was going to happen. At some point in the future we may decide that the ICBM capability of NK had become too critical, and we would attack it using conventional means. We would destroy it to the best of our ability, using missiles and air strikes. But this would be the warning, and I would not be bluffing ... If NK launched an attack on SK in response, and especially if they opened up on Seoul with that artillery they possess, we would nuke NK.

I am not a barbarian. I do not say that cavalierly. I have thought about the alternative, and it is worse. A very quick, devastating defeat of NK is preferable to any other form of extended conventional warfare with them. The truth is, the nukes we dropped on Japan in 1945 ended the war and saved more lives than they took. And so, NK could stand down when we took out their nuclear program, or they could attack SK and the millions of people living in and around Seoul. If they chose war as a response, then we should do the thing that would save the most lives, limit the destruction of SK, protect our troops on the ground, and end the war quickly.

This would be my message to the Chinese premier. I would implore him to act before we do. And I would make it crystal clear to him just exactly what was at stake here.

 

Yes, but the point is that NK is a poor country and other poor countries also have starving people with those at the top being well fed but nothing is said about them. Many countries in Africa and Asia are much more in need of food and their people are not just hungry but dying from lack of food.

 

I wonder how far away from Korea the USS Carl Vinson is?

 

It's supposed to have got there three days ago but it's all gone quiet which seems odd given all the publicity. I wonder if it's because of this:
http://www.newsweek.com/carl-vinson-cannot-shoot-down-missile-590106
It weighs 97,000 tons and is equipped with tomahawk missiles, dozens of jets and at least 5,000 American sailors but the USS Carl Vinson appears to have one fatal flaw as it motors toward the Korean Peninsula: It is not capable of shooting down missiles.

 

I hope the accompanying fleet can take care of that.

 

We could probably email her or ring up, but be told nothing.

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It's quite funny that most countries have satellites that are capable of following a car in open spaces but the US navy think that a 97,000 ton ship is invisible. Something tells me that the navy rightly reasoned that they should keep their distance as they are a bit of sitting ducks to missiles when close up in open waters

 

Er... yes it is.
U.S. Navy sailors aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) carried out a live-fire exercise with the ship’s RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile weapons systems and Phalanx Close-In Weapons System on November 2.

http://navaltoday.com/2016/11/03/uss-carl-vinson-tests-rim-116-missile-phalanx-ciws/

 

And that is because you say so? The NK/KJU is not scenario is not unique at all. What you want/expect is a coup. The US did that in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And 15 years later, the world is far more unsafe than it was before because of that! 100.000's of people have died because of that American foreign policy of entering a country and change the government. That, and millions of people are on the run. Europe thanks the US for the muslim invasion, and "helping out" with those problems.

The NK/KJU scenario would probably go the exact same way. Millions of North Koreans would will end up fleeing to either China or South Korea. And the US would go "not my problem" ones and again. No doubt that 100.000's of people will die. And the US would go "totally worth it". You aware that NK/KJU is not just about nuclear bombs? They got this thing about chemical weapons. If you think what Assad "allegedly" does in Syria is bad,... NK/KJU got an almost endless supply of missiles capable to drop that stuff in Seoul. Seoul with 25 million people just a stone throw away from the border!

 

But you are. What you propose is to risk the lives of people living in Seoul.. I dunno.. 25 million? in this war. They get to die from the massive bombardment of North Korea, with conventional and WMD bombs. And so than you go nuke North Korea,.. causing I dunno. Make it a cool 50 million people in total.

You know the holocaust is "just" about 6 million Jews?
Your scenario is massacring 50 million Koreans!

"I am not a barbarian"... yeah right.. lol
Dude.. you're worse than Hitler. Face it.
He's not in the ballpark of what you are thinking off.


And what is you post-nuclear vision for North Korea, may I ask?
There bound to be utterly 100 millions of survivors after those nuclear blast.
How on earth will you aid those people, before they die as well?

It seems to me, that you gave no thought of how many people you are willing to slaughter to reach your goal at all. That, or the value of life of any Korean, is a joke to you with a hiter-like attitude of having the "final solution" for it.

 

They test fired at two drones. How fast are drones? Now compare that to Bloomberg and Newsweek reports and the vague response from the Pentagon “We don’t discuss specific capabilities of weapons systems. No single capability defends against all threats. Rather it is the employment of integrated, multi-layered land and sea-based systems that provide missile defense.”

 

Basically, Israel is the testing ground. And so far flimsy little home made missiles are sometimes stopped but they still can hit Israel all over. That leaves little doubt that missiles going x times the speed of sound will be stopped a heck of a lot less often.

I also recall that Russia got a ship that has the nickname of being their aircraftcarrier destroyer. That ship is somewhere near North Korea atm.

 

No one called me out on anything. I did read the entire conversation, it took the same path as just about every other conversation on North Korea by reverting to talking about jokes of Kuim Jong-un. You are the one that first came running to the recuse of defending the person I was calling out. Don't twist this conversation up now that you're neck deep in it. Do you really think that Kim Jong-un is a "fat joke"? You sit back in your arm-chair ignoring that all military experts and Global leaders don't think of him as a big fat Joke, that is why things regarding North Korea's nuclear weapon program have been allowed to this stage so far. But I don't think that and nuclear weapon State can honestly criticize North Korea for pursuing the same things that other Nation already have without sounding like hypocrite themselves. Article 10 of the NPT allows nations to legally withdraw from that agreement. I think North Korea's withdraw from the agreement was lawful and the correct thing to do. I also think North Korea striving to build a nuclear weapons program was a smart thing for North Korea to do. I think that Western nations that criticize Kim Jong-un for doing so arguing that he is dumping tons of money into it as he neglects taking care of his people is hypocritical when those Western criticizers are the very same people that pushed sanctions on North Korea to cut off trade and stifle the North Korean economy. The North Koreans don't need access to the rest of the out-side world to know who the real bad-guys are here. The West made Kim Jong-un the threat he is to them today when they made it a policy to bully smaller nations. Kim Jong-un was just 28 when he first took power. He wasn't just some old-fart willing to submit to any and every difficult challenge. Old farts aren't fighters, that's why they recruit kids out of high-school to fight their battles.

The West choose to ignore the young Kim Jong-un, because they thought that they were smarter than him. They pulled out the bully playbook and thought that if they could squeeze him hard enough by isolating North Korea that the people would turn against him. But instead they love him, they worship him like a god because they see him standing up in defiance of the World's most powerful bullies. Even the people that don't like the current situation in North Korea recognize that they would be no better off if he had submitted to the bullying tactics. They are all in the same boat even if he has a nicer cabin than other people in that boat. They feel like a boat stuck in the middle of an ocean that their is no way off of, no one is running to their rescue, they're on their own. The rest of the world is that big ocean around them, trying to drowned them out, they don't plan to go out without a fight, their only option is to fight for survival. And it's only because the rest of the World treated North Korea like that (since WWII) that it has become as dangerous as it is today and it will only become more dangerous now with every ticking moment that continues to tick by. We created that monster, North Korea didn't want this, we forced their hand. And when this bobble burst (and it will burst) it's going to be a big mess, and we'll be the ones responsible for that disaster. So when I say "the fat jokes are getting a little old" it's because I know that this is not a joking matter. You are literally defending the right to laugh-off possibly millions of lives just to see the firework-show. I don't find that funny at all.

So please by all means "call-me-out" from your armchair (probably sitting there with a few extra ponds yourself) and tell me that what I'm saying is BS. Explain to me that it's more important to joke this off. Explain to me what we're going to get out of the entertainment. Wars aren't free, their paid for in blood and dollars.

 

Wake up almost everyone in the world (apparently not you) realizes the majority of people (not military) in NK are starving. By the way civilized countries have electricity almost at will, my point.
http://www1.wfp.org/countries/democratic-peoples-republic-korea
The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) suffers high levels of food insecurity. Its harsh climate, mountainous terrain and lack of farming mechanization limit agricultural production, which shows a declining trend across all crops. A drought in 2015 worsened the situation, resulting in a 11 percent reduction in harvests on the previous year. This has led to a substantial food shortage, which is compounded by political and commercial isolation and weather-related crises. Around 70 percent of the population are food insecure.

Many people suffer from chronic malnutrition due to lack of essential proteins, fats, vitamins and minerals. Those living in towns and cities have worse diets, with many relying on rural relatives, improvised ‘kitchen gardens’ or market activities to supplement the food they receive through the Government’s Public Distribution System (PDS). The PDS consistently provides lower food rations than the Government’s daily target.

 

Here's the problem I have with all the "must," attack talk -
50 years ago, some people were saying we must attack the Soviets before they hit us ... Now Presidential hopefuls are getting golden showers in Moscow and you can hop on a plane and buy a Loius Vitton bag in in a Russian shopping mall.
Some people said that must attack China before the "Red Menace" was sneaking into our bedroom ... Now, our kid's PJs are made in China and our tourists are taking pictures of Mao's tomb.
Basically, there are millions of people who did not die in a useless war because we remained watchful but did not freak out.

 

True. There appears to be chronic malnutrition in NK. But maybe you should ask those people if they would rather be a bit hungry or if they would rather be a civilian casualty of war before you jump on your white horse and bomb your way to their rescue.

 

"a bit hungry' would be an improvement, they're starving.
Isn't the being bombed up to the lil dicktator?

 

Tillerson claims North Korea is "the most pressing security issue in the world..."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-tillerson-un-northkorea-20170428-story.html

“'Failing to act now on the most pressing security issue in the world may bring catastrophic consequences,' Tillerson told the Security Council. 'Additional patience will only mean acceptance of a nuclear North Korea.'

"He said the threat of a North Korean nuclear attack on Seoul or Tokyo is real and that it is 'likely only a matter of time' before Pyongyang gains the ability to launch a nuclear-armed missile at the U.S. mainland, probably California."

Personally, I will take my chances with North Korea even while residing in Los Angeles.
Trump and Tillerson represent a far more deadly threat to humanity given the amount of firepower at their disposal and the last 72 years of US history.

 

The NK situation only makes plain that the U.S. desperately needs to retrench. We need to leave E Asia, and let the regional actors sort out their own problems. They really don't have anything to do with us.