Tump makes the worst act of his Presidency

Not true. There is nothing in the deal that says that. It was a point of contention but Iran gave in..

 

I'll add you to my list of posters who already know everything, so that we can call on you when we need the all-seeing eye to guide us past the flying monkey and stuff.

 

As in, there are no crackpots around?
No crazy people in the asylum either, and that is documented. They took a poll of the inmates, and it was unanimous.

 

I've said in the past, I don't think us pulling out of the deal will bring better result then leaving it in place and working to strengthen it will.

I do think that unless Iran is dumb, they will push for a congress backed treaty instead of just an executive deal (or whatever you want to call it)
When that happens Trump will use the issue as a whip to force some really stinky satan sandwiches down the democrate controlled house/ legislatures throat to get it done.

He's trading US credibility for domestic leverage.

 

I'm not going to go full scope here, but-
"Based on the fact that any educated person who would run for President understands the benefits of keeping our international policy consistent"

You don't really believe that? Or at least that knowing it didn't stop them from doing what ever they wanted?
Just yes or no. That could explain a lot.

 

"slowly stepping away from you.........."

 

Good idea.

 

No they didn't! Bibi came out saying that some ... "spy" found this and that. He never produced a shred of evidence.

As somebody said: "Sometimes you have to realize when you have been had". This would be a good time for you do just that.

And maybe you can answer what nobody has answered: why did we withdraw from the deal at this time? Forget if it was a good or bad deal. That doesn't matter at this point. Iran already got their benefits. The only thing left was for Iran to meet their obligations. Now Trump has provided them with the perfect excuse to not do that.

Trump gave NK 1.8 billion? I didn't know that. But, then again, I wouldn't trust "reports" So I'll give Trump a pass until we have a real source.

Obama didn't pay a cent when he got the 10 sailors liberated from Iran in less than 15 hours. I suppose that's the case you're referring to....

 

They did not stop developing ICBMs (good only for attacking Europe and us.) They did not agree to stop commandeering our ships and sailors. They did not promise to stop arming Hamas with missiles and artillery. They did not promise to stop killing American soldiers. They did not promise to stop publicly and officially shouting, "Death to America." They did not promise to recognize Israel. They did not promise to stop vowing to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Finally, though you close your eyes and ears to the reality, they did not stop work on their nuclear program. Every country including ours does not have a clue if their nuclear program has stopped. The inspectors do have a clue but they are restricted in what they can inspect, and take Iran's word for it in those cases.

 

So we should give him "credit", not because he did something right. But because he promised it in the campaign... Huh?

BTW... "haters"? Everybody other than his deep core fanatics hate Trump. Probably even his own family hates him. Certainly everybody who works with him Even his allies. So being a "Trump hater" is not much of an identifying quality.

Why would Iran have any interest in negotiating any deal whatsoever? They already got everything. Trump pulled out when it was time for them to meet their obligations. The next President will have to get a better deal. But better for them. Not for us. Trump left us with nothing to negotiate with. Not even our credibility.

BTW, I have applauded every time Trump has done something sensible. I have not had many opportunities, but there are several threads I created. But this one is terrible. If we find ourselves at war with Iran within the next 2 or 5 or ... 20 years, we know it was Trump's fault. Same goes if they get nukes of their own. So never forget this moment in history.

 

Oh... I see. So you wanted Obama to solve all the world's problems in one deal, right?

Sorry.... world doesn't work like that. The way it works is you do one deal that solves the most pressing matter. Once the objective is accomplished, you deal with the rest. I much prefer that Iran yells "Death to America" all they want so long as they don't have nukes. We'll deal with that when the Ayatollah is dead and we can get McDonald's and Dave and Buster's all over Tehran.

So the effect of withdrawing at this point is that, not only can Iran still do those things you mention. Now they can also build nukes.

Thanks to our Dope in Chief!

 

Sure, for one thing presidents do not do very well is actually keeping what put them into office, you know, their promises to the voters. Elect me, and I will promise to do this.

It is so rare that he certainly be given credit for keeping a promise that helped to put him into office. Now, perhaps your are a democrat, and could not care less if your candidate fulfilled any of their promises. You were not electing someone who wanted to do certain things, for the american people. And so, if he or she broke such promises, well that has no importance to you? Perhaps you just wanted to be a part of electing the first female, and that is all that matter, along with her being in your tribe. Thing is, there are some of us, who voted on issues and promises, and not what sex one was.

I do not agree with trump pulling out. But not being infected and affected by hatred of the man, I can at least see that keeping a campaign promise is not common, and he did it, which should give him some credit for at least doing that. Only hatred stops it. I am not at all agreeable with people who are governed by their emotions, especially when it is an aspect of the base side of human nature.

 

And maintaining the ability to make such weapons at its whim at least violates such an agreement in spirit if not in letter.

 

tRump is a disaster, and he was put in office by deplorables.

 

"WE" didn't want to make an agreement with Iran. That was entirely Obamas doing.

OK so it was all Obama.........except for the government of Great Britain.......but that's it. Except for the German government.....so Obama and the governments of Great Britain and Germany.........but that's all. Except for France and Russia and China and Iran.

A consensus of polls suggests that the majority of the American public, and an even stronger majority of Jewish Americans, support the deal. Furthermore, a considerable number of foreign affairs experts and top officials support the deal: more than 100 former US ambassadors, 60 American national security leaders across the political spectrum including former US ambassadors to Israel, 70+ nuclear nonproliferation experts, 73 prominent international relations scholars, 67 Israeli former military and intelligence officials, 34 retired American Generals and Admirals, 32 top American scientists, 340 rabbis, 75 former Senators and Representatives, and the Gulf Cooperation Council, all publicly support the deal.

Many opponents of the deal were on the wrong side of history leading up to the war in Iraq. As James Fallows, national security correspondent for The Atlantic, put it in a recent piece, “You can be persuaded by Netanyahu, Huckabee, Cruz, Kristol, Adelson, et al., all of whom were wrong on the last high-stakes judgment call about US interests in the Middle East. Or by an overwhelming majority of the people from both parties with operating experience in America’s war-fighting and peacemaking enterprises in this part of the world.”

 

They could do that whenever the urge struck them. Whether We stayed in a non binding largely pointless agreement or not doesn't matter a damn which is the point.

 

So if the rest of the world chooses to ignore reality we should just go along? In fact for the most part Europe's position on the Middle East for the last thirty years has been to pretend that Islamic radicalism doesn't exist and the problem is whoever they choose to scapegoat at the moment the US the Jews in fact everyone but the people doing the murdering beheading and suicide bombing.

 

They understand the benefits of keeping an image of consistency. Of course, they have also made big blunders! Like Bush's when he unilaterally withdrew from the deal with North Korea. Which was what allowed North Korea to get nukes and put us in the situation we are now. But not until now did any of them do it for no reason other than their sick obsession to erase the previous President's legacy. That is very damaging to our country. Trump hasn't even bothered to give a reason why he did it. Or at least an excuse.

Other countries know this. Iran knows this.... They also know that our people can not be trusted anymore to elect a sensible person to the Presidency. So this goes way beyond the Iran deal.

I'll repeat what I have said to others. If in the next.. two, or five or... twenty years, we are at war with Iran. Or Iran has obtained nukes, the only culprit will be Trump. Remember the date: Tuesday May 8, 2018. That will be the date when it all started.

The right is still unable to grasp the fact that actions have consequences.

 

I don't understand why you believe that his promising it in campaign is enough of a reason. Trump didn't explain during the campaign why he would tear up the deal, and hasn't explained it now. He obviously is completely clueless as to what the deal was about. He promised it in campaign because anything he said that Obama didn't want, no matter how idiotic what he was saying was, would get him cheers from the crowd. And he loves being cheered!

Why?

It was idiotic to make that promise about something he didn't understand. It was idiotic of his voters to cheer for it and put him in office for it when they didn't understand it either. And it's even more idiotic to actually do it without understanding the consequences.

Here is the difference: I understand what they promise. So if I like what they promise to do, I expect them to keep their promise. If I don't like what they promise (and me being a Democrat doesn't mean I will blindly cheer for everything my candidate says) then I hope they don't, or that they give convincing reasons why it's a good thing.

It's much more important that they do the right thing. Most Presidents don't fail to keep their promises because they were lying. They don't usually because they don't have enough power in Congress. Trump is the exception. He actually just knowingly lied...

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It's very common. But never, on it's own, reason enough.

 

It may not have been binding to us. But it was certainly binding to them. Which is even more proof of how idiotic it was to actually withdraw from it.

Your assessment that it's pointless to keep Iran from having nukes gives us an insight into the way thought patterns "work" among those who elected Trump.

 

War with Iran. That's quite a bold prediction considering regime change in Iran has been a US foreign policy goal for decades, same as Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, and some I have probably missed.

I always suspected the Iran nuke deal was a setup similar to how Saddam Hussein was trapped.

 

Ukraine??? Well, you might have missed some. And I don't know what Ukraine is doing in that group. But you got the ones we've been at war with.

A low down slimy setup to avoid war. Hah! But Trump certainly took care of that!

 

No, if Iran was found to have violated the nuke deal it would give the US justification for a military intervention. The violation may not even need to be true, as we saw with UNSCOM, Clinton, and Bush in Iraq.

Without the US in the agreement it will be a bit more difficult for the US to act unilaterally.

For the record, I am still not ready to claim Trump is anti-establishment.

 

Which, given Bibi's revelation a few days ago, tells everyone with a lick of sense the deal wasn't worth ssssshhhhaving cream to begin with.

 

Which revelation told "everyone with a lick of sense the deal wasn't worth ssssshhhhaving cream to begin with."? Asked many times and ignored every time. You and others clearly have no clue what the deal was about

I'll give you a clue since you and many others clearly do not understand the point. The joke documents that Bibi talked about refer to activities pre 1993! BTW those files were fake anyway